First Aide

[CapnMac]

Dropper of super glue

That used to be a sensible inclusion.

But, there are too many 'superglues' out there with too many oddball chemistries anymore (Gorilla brand's example being apt) meant to be 'smarter' than the people using it for gluing inappropriate things together "instantly." (And, yes, I've used CA glue for minor cuts; just not recently.)

Now, some of the emergency medical supply houses have a "clean" cyanoacryllate glues that are good for medical use (not cheap though--little is at a medical supply house).

 

[CapnMac]

First aid vs survival kit... one in the same? Perhaps so, perhaps not.

There's starting to be a distinction between immediate self-care and supportive care.

Self-care refers to items on or in reach of a person constantly (when at risk).

Consider being out alone with a chainsaw. There are only a few "minor" injuries related to chainsaw use. Blisters or burns or minor splinters will wait until you get back to the truck. Everything else is going to be serious and immediate and will need to be in reach to do you any good.

Supportive care is just that, for those things after the life-threatening ones are sorted out.

So, if your buddy out at the lease has had a chainsaw mishap, you want to be able to use either your or your buddy's IFAK to sort that out. If, instead, he's fallen out of a tree stand, and is not bleeding, is breathing reasonably, and does not appear to have other deficits, then you can leg it back to the truck (or where ever the next-larger aid kit is) and sort out splinting, shock prevention, etc.

The goal is to get the injured person (yourself or another) to qualified care as expeditiously as possible.

 

[redneck]

I kind of went with a modular set up.

I have a vanquest EDC pack that I take on all hunts. It holds a flashlight with extra batteries, a couple ways to start a fire, my tags and permission slips, a pen, a couple ibuprofen, some flu pills, and bandages(ziplock back of several sizes along with 4x4 guaze and tape). I can run my belt through a loop on the pack if its all I want, or I can add it to another pack.

In the truck, I keep a 2nd vanquest EDC pack that is dedicated entirely to first aid. It has more types of medicine, more sizes of bandages, scissors, bugbite/sting stuff, A full roll of vetwrap, a bunch of alcohol prep pads etc.

Both of the EDC packs have molle straps so if I know I am going to be out longer, going farther, or the weather is going to be bad, I can strap one or both of them to a small field and stream hydration/day pack , and have all of the must have items, along with some food/water, larger knife, a saw etc.

If I know I am going out in the dead of winter to spend the whole day, I take a 3 day pack, with both of the EDC packs attached, along with whatever food/water I want, extra layers, dry socks etc.

I have found its a lot easier to just add the small packs to the load out than it is to try to re-pack individual items for every scenario.




Side note, Does anyone know what kind of shelf life the clotting sponges have? I have considered adding a couple to my gear, but for the price I don't want to buy them if they will go bad after a week in the truck in summer heat.

 

[Kingcreek]

My first aid and survival kit is one kit because of some overlap. It all fits in a small hi viz otter box.

 

[FL-NC]

You would probably get the best advice from a combat medic or a paramedic who hunts and understands the need to keep stuff light. I'm neither, so I'll stay quiet and point you in what I think may be the best direction.

 

[SoonerMedic]

You would probably get the best advice from a combat medic or a paramedic who hunts and understands the need to keep stuff light. I'm neither, so I'll stay quiet and point you in what I think may be the best direction.

Paramedic isn't even necessary....I'm an EMT and can put together a sufficient kit.

 

[SoonerMedic]

Side note, Does anyone know what kind of shelf life the clotting sponges have? I have considered adding a couple to my gear, but for the price I don't want to buy them if they will go bad after a week in the truck in summer heat.

Every company expires their products differently. Cat-5 tourniquets never expire. All bleeding stops eventually Honestly though, if you're bleeding enough to need a clotting agent, you are bleeding enough to use a TQ. Bulky dressing and pressure on every wound that is bleeding heavily.....ALWAYS. This is an EMT/Paramedic's first move 100% of the time when there is uncontrolled bleeding. No reason you need to do anything a EMT/Paramedic/Doctor wouldn't do first.

 

[SoonerMedic]

So, if your buddy out at the lease has had a chainsaw mishap, you want to be able to use either your or your buddy's IFAK to sort that out. If, instead, he's fallen out of a tree stand, and is not bleeding, is breathing reasonably, and does not appear to have other deficits, then you can leg it back to the truck (or where ever the next-larger aid kit is) and sort out splinting, shock prevention, etc.

The goal is to get the injured person (yourself or another) to qualified care as expeditiously as possible.

I just want to touch on this. If your buddy falls from a significant height (10 ft. or more) please for the love of all things holy, do not move him or her. Please don't try to get them to walk to the truck. This is enough height to constitute a traumatic brain injury or spinal injury. Walking will not help these things. Take control of C-spine (hold his/her head straight and still) and do not let them move. Call 911 and have the medics find you. They can ping your cell phone and will come to you. You can put your phone on speaker and give instructions well enough to get them within shouting range.
Also, not all chainsaw injuries are serious. A laceration to the leg (which is usually the case) is easily treatable and can be patched long enough to get them to an ER to get stitched up.

 

[redneck]

Every company expires their products differently. Cat-5 tourniquets never expire. All bleeding stops eventually Honestly though, if you're bleeding enough to need a clotting agent, you are bleeding enough to use a TQ. Bulky dressing and pressure on every wound that is bleeding heavily.....ALWAYS. This is an EMT/Paramedic's first move 100% of the time when there is uncontrolled bleeding. No reason you need to do anything a EMT/Paramedic/Doctor wouldn't do first.

Thanks. I had a feeling that the clotting sponges are way over sold and that is part of why I haven't bought one. I don't profess myself to be an expert with first aid by any means, most of my experience is with doctoring on horses. When people need something I usually try to make sure the situation is safe and leave the medical stuff to others (IE a kid gets bucked off at a horse show, I catch the horse, clear the arena and let someone more knowledgeable tend to the kid). In a hunting situation I wouldn't get to rely on there being someone first aid trained in the crowd, or an EMT on call so I would be forced to take a more active approach in the event I was hunting with other people.

Given the risk of amputation I always sort of look at a tourniquet as something that should be left to a more knowledgeable person to decide to use, and thought maybe the clotting sponges were a lower risk alternative. I've dealt with some very gnarly horse injuries and gotten by just fine, so I don't foresee myself panicking and using either when it isn't warranted, but the idea of a tourniquet causing more damage still bothers me.

 

[SoonerMedic]

Given the risk of amputation I always sort of look at a tourniquet as something that should be left to a more knowledgeable person to decide to use, and thought maybe the clotting sponges were a lower risk alternative. I've dealt with some very gnarly horse injuries and gotten by just fine, so I don't foresee myself panicking and using either when it isn't warranted, but the idea of a tourniquet causing more damage still bothers me.

Tourniquets are fairly straightforward and very easy to learn how to use. Basically you want to apply it 3-5 inches above the injury and twist the stick until bleeding stops and then velcro around the stick so it won't untwist. Other than that you can not remove it. You're supposed to leave it until you get to a doctor. Also, some amputations won't bleed surprisingly enough. Not all injuries that bleed heavily require a TQ either. The only time you should use it is if you can't control the bleeding with dressings and pressure.

 

[redneck]

Tourniquets are fairly straightforward and very easy to learn how to use. Basically you want to apply it 3-5 inches above the injury and twist the stick until bleeding stops and then velcro around the stick so it won't untwist. Other than that you can not remove it. You're supposed to leave it until you get to a doctor. Also, some amputations won't bleed surprisingly enough. Not all injuries that bleed heavily require a TQ either. The only time you should use it is if you can't control the bleeding with dressings and pressure.

When I mentioned amputation I was referring to the injured person losing the limb the TQ was put on, and that is why I would be very hesitant to use one. I suppose if I was faced with an artery spraying blood out uncontrollably the TQ would suddenly seem like a great idea. I will continue hoping I don't have to deal with a situation like that but I suppose I will add some stuff to my bag anyhow.

 

[jeepnik]

My first aid kit for back packing is very basic. Few band aids, tape, ace wrap, pain meds, anti diarrhea meds, antacid, material to make a tourniquet. Any serious injury will require professional care, so my SAT PHONE and personal locator are the 2 most important items in my kit, that and basic first aid knowledge of what to do in those first critical hours that follow a major accident or injury. Knowing who and when to call and having those numbers with you along with the ability to call help cannot be over stated.

Restore breathing!!!

Stop the bleeding!!!

Treat for shock!!!

Cause no farther injury!!

Get help!!!!

And pray you are close enough for help to reach you in time, or the injury isn't much more that a scrape or paper cut.

 

[SoonerMedic]

Restore breathing!!!

Stop the bleeding!!!

Treat for shock!!!

Cause no farther injury!!

Get help!!!!

Basically it. The ABC's are what all medical personnel follow all the way up to doctors....Airway, Breathing and then Circulation. Always assess major life threats first and then follow the ABCs. Pretty simple stuff. I'm sure there are some crash course videos on YouTube that would provide excellent info on how to administer basic life support.

 

[CapnMac]

.Airway, Breathing and then Circulation.

British Occupational Health is churning up the letters some. They are recommending HABC, the leading "H" being (major) Hemorrhage.
This on the reasonably good argument that a good airway is of little use to an exsanguinated patient. But, BMA & OH are still not quite settled on procedure.
Which is straying in a tad too technical for here.

The old "advice" on using a TQ "last" was before many of the advances in modern medicine. If, say, you were more than a day from only developing world level medicine, then maybe. But, really, you can go to a TQ to control arterial bleeding nearly immediately (and faster can be better with arterial bleeding).

 

[SoonerMedic]

British Occupational Health is churning up the letters some. They are recommending HABC, the leading "H" being (major) Hemorrhage.
This on the reasonably good argument that a good airway is of little use to an exsanguinated patient. But, BMA & OH are still not quite settled on procedure.
Which is straying in a tad too technical for here.

The old "advice" on using a TQ "last" was before many of the advances in modern medicine. If, say, you were more than a day from only developing world level medicine, then maybe. But, really, you can go to a TQ to control arterial bleeding nearly immediately (and faster can be better with arterial bleeding).

Yeah, I would imagine the ABCs are different in other countries. Its just an easy rule of thumb to remember ABC after you address any immediate life threats. Life threats typically being an arterial bleed, but sometimes it's something else.
As for a TQ.....I don't know if you've ever put one on yourself, but I would bet the farm on you never having one put on with the proper amount of torque. I've placed a couple tourniquets and those people almost lost it. Screaming and begging for it to come off. I think I will use a TQ as a last resort on myself....but that's just me.

 

[SoonerMedic]

I do know some medicinal herbs and how the take care of minor injuries. And also how to put bit broken wrists, shoulder and Eldows. That’s should count for something.

I know of some medicinal herb too lol

 

[CapnMac]

.I don't know if you've ever put one on yourself

Only in a limited way, in training. We were given training limbs to practice upon to get that level of muscle memory of how tight tight-enough is. It's a workout.
And humbling, too. When you consider what it would be like to be issued that big Medic One bag and have to triage through a MassCas. If only as a reminder to check on your people in such an event, and make sure they stop and take a moment before trying to go set another TQ, even in the face of overwhelming need.

We had a MasCasEx where a secondary "event" where some of the first responders became part of the Exercise. Self-aid while in an Ex is a unique stressor that has value in training. And, once again, this is wandering far afield of germane to THR.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I just want to touch on this. If your buddy falls from a significant height (10 ft. or more) please for the love of all things holy, do not move him or her. Please don't try to get them to walk to the truck. This is enough height to constitute a traumatic brain injury or spinal injury. Walking will not help these things. Take control of C-spine (hold his/her head straight and still) and do not let them move. Call 911 and have the medics find you. They can ping your cell phone and will come to you. You can put your phone on speaker and give instructions well enough to get them within shouting range.
Also, not all chainsaw injuries are serious. A laceration to the leg (which is usually the case) is easily treatable and can be patched long enough to get them to an ER to get stitched up.

My brother cut his wrist with one. The only thing that saved his life was the fact he had a belt on for his buddy to stop the bleeding with. Chainsaws remove chunks intead of slicing. Bleeding is extremely difficult to control on them.
Totally agree with the serious falls point.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Carry only what can treat something that can immobilize a person. Either from injury or pain. No more

I have found that the most times when I've used my first aid kit..., it's been on somebody else. I've never had to treat a gunshot wound while hunting, though I've treated a bunch at work.

So I carry stuff to fix me, and others, and my list is based on stuff that I've used over the years. While some injuries wouldn't "immobilize me" it might really mess with my hunt, especially on days 2 and 3.

A pair of folding scissors, and a pair of tweezers
tourniquet
Telfa pads (coupled with the tape below I can make any size bandaid.)
First aid tape
pack of butterfly closures (work like sutures, use with rubber bands below on fingers)
two small rubber bands to stop blood flow to finger (easier to use the butterfly closures when the cut finger isn't bleeding like a hog )
two rolls of gauze (can be used to help hold a long cut closed along with the butterfly closures. One roll each, still rolled, at an entry and exit wound, taped in place and wrapped with an ace bandage will help a gunshot wound.... plastic from the telfa pad package and tape for a sucking chest wound. )
Antibiotic gel tube
A tiny bottle of Ibuprofen
an ace bandage (as mentioned in another post, works for a sling, binds a bad ankle or wrist or elbow or knee, can be used to bind a limb to a splint)
Small bottle of hand sanitizer
four tiny tubes of artificial tears (if the eyes get crud in them, I might as well be immobilized)
1 ounce bottle of campho phenique (good for burns, bug bights, scratches, minor cuts, as it's a topical antiseptic, topical pain killer.)
1/2 ounce bottle of New Skin (great for minor cuts or covering blisters that aren't open)

So after 30 years in the woods, coupled with 4 in the Marine Corps infantry and almost three decades as a cop, the above works pretty well.

OH IF I'm going on a long hunting trip, like for a week, and planning to be on foot a good distance from vehicles, I add:

pepto bismol tablets (can't hunt well when you're spending all your time with the green-apple-quick-step )
Baby aspirin (good for the dog if he's sore on day two; good for older guys who might have a heart problem)
Antihistamine , and I try for types that work for folks with high blood pressure (helps buy you time for shock from a bee sting if the person stung doesn't have an epi-pen..., helps relieve your stuffy nose so you can sleep or reduces sneezing in the field if you develop a cold on the trip)
A styptic pencil (you can let the dog with the nick on his ear bleed all over the place, or you can treat him with this)

LD