First real rifle for son, options?

[gralewaj]

My son has been begging us to learn to shoot. Wife and I agree it's time. I have plenty of .22LR options in bolt, lever, and SA to begin his journey but, I would like to know if there's another "beginner" caliber anyone would suggest once he gets along with the .22? Is an AR with red dot optic alright to learn on? My wife hated shooting it when I was teaching her, she preferred a scoped .243 bolt gun once the .22 was comfortable. He has a short length of pull, does this matter a lot with scaling the caliber to the shooter? Iron sight the AR with adjustable LOP? I'm curious how others introduced their children and others to the shooting sports.

Thank you for your response!

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I prefer single shots or bolt actions for new shooters, last option in my mind is a semi as there is just more to teach them and they almost always have a loaded weapon with a semi. I also, prefer iron sights for them to start. Keeps things lower cost that way. They can always move up to a scope or dot down the road but should know the basics first in my mind.

 

[Roverguy]

Can’t beat a 22lr bolt action as a first rifle. Easy to shoot allows for focus on the fundamentals. Have him put a few bricks through that first.

 

[dredd]

I prefer single shots or bolt actions for new shooters, last option in my mind is a semi as there is just more to teach them and they almost always have a loaded weapon with a semi. I also, prefer iron sights for them to start. Keeps things lower cost that way. They can always move up to a scope or dot down the road but should know the basics first in my mind.

I'm on board with this as well.

I grew up with my grandfather letting me shoot bolt actions, including the shotguns.
He took the mags out of everything.
I had one shot and it had to count.

I put a lot of rabbits, squirrels etc in a frying pan or pot.
I learned early how to cook up some vittles!

 

[d2wing]

I generally start with a air pistol to teach sight alignment and trigger control and then an air rifle. Then small bolt action 22 depending on size of shooter, then progress to a larger 22, CZ or Ruger 10/22. Centerfire, an AR carbine due to adjustable stock and low recoil. If the kid is big enough next is a compact rifle in .243. although there are many options. Others I have used are a Winchester 94 in 30-30. A SKS in 7.62x39. A compact bolt action in any AR type cartridge would be a good option too.

 

[InTheSwamp]

I taught my kids with Crickett 22LR. It is a single shot, bolt action rifle. The beauty of it is that you have to cock it manually after closing the bolt; a good tool for them to learn all the different steps of the operation of the gun.

 

[WestKentucky]

A 22 goes a long way towards a healthy education. A 223 bolt or even a 17hmr would be a nice jump up that would teach some more about distance shooting. A 243 or 7-08 would be a nice option if hunting was the goal.

 

[Dr T]

First centerfire after the 22LR. If it hadn't been discontinued, I would suggest a CZ527 Compact in 7.62x39. Baring that, a Ruger American Compact in 6.5CM.

 

[trackskippy]

How old and how big is he? If you want to learn to shoot properly, you need a gun that fits, and better yet, is "scaled" to your size.

Our kids started early, and had Chipmunk 22's. The rifles were appropriate for their size at the time, and "fit" them. They could easily stand and shoulder the rifle and shoot it offhand, as well as shoot from sitting and prone with no issues.

The Chipmunks and Crickets would be my choice for a kids first gun, assuming the kids are 4 to 6 or 8 so, depending on their size. They are well made, with good sights, and "scaled". Once they start getting bigger though, you will likely have to go with something that has a youth or maybe adjustable stock on it.

 

[Varminterror]

How old of kid are we talking about, and what physical size?

I’ve instructed a lot of kids into shooting sports and marksmanship in the last ~20+ years, and I made all of the mistakes everyone recommends people make as common advice - which is well meaning, but bad advice all the same.

My best advice is to get a 22Lr rifle and get an additional stock or an adjustable stock to fit their LOP, and stick a red dot on top. Do NOT get the “micro rifle” 22’s like Cricketts, Chipmunks, or Rascals, these are 100% wasted investment which kids will outgrow quickly, and guess what - a manual cocking single shot will absolutely NOT force a kid to learn trigger discipline. The instructor reinforced trigger discipline - not the action type. But also, these micro 22’s have super small and light form, but have lengths of pull which are still too long for the age of kids for which they’re commonly marketed. These typically have 11.5-11.75” LOP, which is typically suited for kids around 8-9yrs old, or older, whereas the action type is probably really only sensible for 3-5yr old kids.

Iron sights are fine, but they are the most challenging sighting method, so despite all of the Luddite “I learned on irons and I shoot fine” Fuddism, irons require more from the learner than necessary, and Red Dot sights reduce that burden. EVERYONE learns better when they can functionally segment fundamental skills and develop each through focused, independent effort, and removing the burden of sight alignment allows the kid to focus on target picture, breathing, and trigger control better to learn more quickly and develop deeper proficiency.

AR’s are very adaptable, but recognize, AR’s are very difficult to shoot well. So it’s a double edged sword.

Take-off stocks are very easy to find for a lot of models, and very cheap. Cutting these down to adapt LOP is very easy. Be mindful of comb height also - it’s very common for small faces to end up way too low under optics, so adding cheek risers is commonly needed.

We also have to acknowledge, if we buy a “youth rifle” with limited function or utility, then the kid will outgrow it quickly and the kid will lose interest and want something different - so the youth rifle becomes a sunk cost. And equally, the kid kinda loses connectivity with what was their first rifle - if you instead buy a more useful, conventional model, but adapt it for a small body, the kid can make use of the rifle throughout their entire life, which can carry considerable meaning in itself.

Applying all of what I learned in offering instruction for kids all of these years to my own son’s marksmanship journey: he started shooting Nerf blasters while he was 1yr old. He started shooting BB guns while he was 2yrs old, and 22LR later that year - then got his first 22LR rifles when he was ~2.5. He started shooting shotgun at 5, and started shooting an AR at 4. He shot a half mile for the first time when he was 6, and 1000yrds for the first time at 7, using my 6 Creedmoor and 6 Dasher rifles. He shot his first PRS match last season while he was 8yrs old. He started on a 10/22 with a modified stock and a combo red dot and laser sight, so I could see where he was aiming on target when breaking shots. When I bought his own 22’s for him, I got him a Marlin 60 with a red dot (Burris FastFire) and a Savage Mark II with a 3-9x scope. He started shooting that Savage Mark II out to 300yrds when he was 6. I got him a Ruger Charger 10/22 pistol when he was 7 or 8, which he has also shot out to 300yrds. We’ll finish up his own centerfire match rifle this summer when my new action delivers, and I’ll put my current Defiance Deviant into his Manners Compact Gen 2 stock, so he’ll have his own 6 Dasher. Dude is hugely capable behind a rifle, and it’s largely driven by the progressive learning process we put in front of him, including the rifles we’ve built and rebuilt to fit his body and skills at his iterative growth levels, and the strategic instruction and practice paradigm he’s been in to develop and sustain his skills.

Putting the kid behind a poor fitting stock with a rifle too big and heavy and too much recoil and an overly challenging sighting system just doesn’t make sense.

 

[trackskippy]

Do NOT get the “micro rifle” 22’s like Cricketts, Chipmunks, or Rascals, these are 100% wasted investment which kids will outgrow quickly, and guess what - a manual cocking single shot will absolutely NOT force a kid to learn trigger discipline. The instructor reinforced trigger discipline - not the action type. But also, these micro 22’s have super small and light form, but have lengths of pull which are still too long for the age of kids for which they’re commonly marketed. These typically have 11.5-11.75” LOP, which is typically suited for kids around 8-9yrs old, or older, whereas the action type is probably really only sensible for 3-5yr old kids.

I disagree here. We never had any troubles with trigger control or safety, but then again, we spent hours on the living room floor in dry fire before they ever fired their first live rounds.

Both our sons were shooting their Chipmuks when they were 4, and the guns fit them both. They learned to shoot from field positions as well, and never fired off a bench, unless they were sittting cross legged or prone on top of it.

Yes, they are a limited type of gun as far as size and fit goes, but so is anything else "little kid" size, and you get them the proper stuff as they grow. The Chipmunks are a well made little rifle, and become one of those family hand-me-downs. My kids both still have theirs and between their kids, and a lot of others, they have always had a work out, so they arent wasted because they have a short time span.

And they can easily be shot by adults if need be. They were always touted as a back pack 22 as well, and I never had any issues shooting one.

The biggest thing for small kids is the fit and weight, especially if youre teaching them to shoot away from a bench or rest. You wont get that from adult guns, even with chopped down stocks.

 

[Varminterror]

We never had any troubles with trigger control or safety,

Disciplined kids which are ready to be sufficiently responsible as demanded by the task don’t have any trouble with trigger control or safety, and forcing them into an under-featured manual cocking single shot does not influence that discipline and mental maturity in any way.

More often, I have witnessed kids which started on under-featured rifles which DO rattle off rounds as fast as they can as soon as they’re given a repeater - proving they were NOT forced develop trigger discipline by their single shot rifles, and clearly DID NOT develop that trigger discipline.

Guns don’t shoot people, and single shots don’t teach trigger discipline. Both are wholly non-sequitur.

 

[Varminterror]

they are a limited type of gun as far as size and fit goes, but so is anything else "little kid" size,

No, kids are not limited to “little kid” types of gun - kids are only limited by the work their parent is willing to put in to make the right type of gun fit them. MOST rifle models have take-off or aftermarket stocks available, and knocking LOP down to 8” typically will reach as young as 3-4yr old kids.

 

[jmr40]

I'm of the opinion that any new shooter should start with a 22. Once mastered you can move on from there. I wouldn't want to give a new shooter a semi-auto with a loaded magazine. Only one round at a time. It is easier to do that with a bolt rifle or single shot.

If someone has a Ruger 10/22 and wants to use it they make 1 round mags.

.22 LR 1-Round Rotary Magazine (shopruger.com)

But as long as the shooter is using the gun under direct supervision it is just as easy to load only 1 round in a standard magazine.

 

[vanfunk]

My son started with a Crosman .17 bb/pellet gun until he had acquired the fundamentals of muzzle control, sights and target acquisition, and general shooting knowledge. Meanwhile I refinished my old Marlin 25 .22 bolt action, refinished the wood and metal and put an inexpensive but good red dot sight on it. He loved it and it advanced him to a “real gun” and all that that entails. Recently (he’s 15 now) I gave him an S&W M&P15-22 with a Tru-Glo red dot on it and he has taken to it like a natural. He has no problem shooting 2” groups at 50 yards with it and ringing the 100 yard gong every time at our range. Just yesterday, I moved him over to the centerfire side of the range and he fired my Colt AR-15 at 100 yards with open sights. Man, did he love it and he really distinguished himself, too. He found the recoil was quite a bit less than he expected and he had no trouble with the sights. I suspect he’s going to ask me for his own 5.56 AR for his 16th birthday I a couple of months; I’m trying to plan for this already lol.

 

[trackskippy]

"We" teach safety and discipline, not the guns. And I suppose a lot of it has to do with how and when you start teaching them.

By the time my kids were 6, they were shooting things like my MP5, and in FA, and with no trouble or problems with trigger control. By the time they were 10, they had more experience with more different types of firearms than most adults, and we never had a lick of trouble with them.

My experience over the years has been, if you have trouble with your kids with basically anything, not jut guns, look in the mirror for the problems.

And personally, I think a lot of people wait for WAY too long to start teaching kids to shoot. You need to start them before they get corrupted by other things. As with most things, you are the programmer. What you plug in, is what you get.

 

[Varminterror]

If we can’t trust a “shooter” with more than one round in the rifle, can we really trust them with the rifle? Really that simple.

 

[herrwalther]

Past the training wheel rifles of air guns, 22s and the like. A Ruger American in 243 is a good rifle to grow into. Savage rifles are another good choice with options to expand LOP with spacers and upgrade to adult size stock easily. I would just avoid the Axis rifles. Never really liked those.

 

[trackskippy]

I think its more important from the start to have a gun scaled to their size, so they can learn how to properly shoot, than it is to worry about the number of rounds in the gun while they are first learning. If I were to start with a repeater, I wouldnt start with a full magazine. Would you?

Even though they are single shots, I taught them to properly work the bolts after they shot and loaded a round after they ejected the empty and recocked the gun for them once they closed the bolt. They never took the gun from their shoulders. Really no different than if it were a repeater, and they knew what to do with a repeater once they started shooting one.

The important thing right off is, they learned proper basic shooting techniques, sights, breathing, trigger, etc., and long before they fired their first live rounds, so when they did, the very first live rounds they fired, were all in the black on a 25 yard pistol target, shooting offhand at around 7-10 yards or so.

Trying to start a kid on a cut down adult gun doesnt work as well as them learning to shoot with a gun that actually fits them, and they can get into proper positions with and maintain a proper hold on them. Trying to hold a gun that's too heavy, just doesn't work well and just adds frustration.

Now, if youre teaching them to shoot off a bench or rest, it really doesn't matter if the gun is too heavy or doesn't really fit quite right, but they really arent learning anything either.

 

[Ignition Override]

A bolt-action .22 LR.

As Officer Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) said to the Marine corporal in Aliens 2: "It's the only way to be sure".

 

[Oldschool shooter]

As a kid, I grew up in in the city. My first "gun" was a Daisy BB rifle. I got it when I was 6. Learned to shoot with dad's Remington pump 22, and his Colt Challenger pistol the few times we went to the range. My very own first rifle was a Winchester bolt action 22 that my uncle bought for me. I still think 22 is the best route to go as a first rifle, and a bolt action is still my favorite. If your son is anything like me, those memories of shooting will be more important to him in the future than anything else. Until recently, I still had the Daisy BB rifle, gave it to a friend's daughter to learn to shoot with. I still have the other 3 I mentioned, and wonderful memories of Dad and my uncle, both gone now. Even at 63, every time I clean or shoot those guns, I feel like a kid again, even if only for a few moments. What ever gun you chose, make the memories, they will last a lifetime.

 

[burrhead]

Here's a good Paul Harrell vid sorta about that subject. I think he makes some good points concerning the boy or girl's maturity, able to understand simple instruction, and having fun.

 

[I6turbo]

I am a fan of CZ guns, and would highly recommend a Scout (452, 455, or 457, your choice). They are "youth sized" but not micro sized so they are big enough for adults to shoot as well, and they are the same quality as the rest of the CZ rimfires, which is to say excellent, and fundamentally as accurate as any of the other CZs (though it's easier to shoot your best groups with a bigger, heavier target-style gun). A lot of people are buying the 457 Scout these days to use as the base for building a target gun (they use the action, add an aftermarket barrel and stock or chassis), so with the 457 you could do that later on if you wanted.

My sons are now in high school and plenty big enough to shoot regular full-size guns, but we all still enjoy the 452 Scout. These days I keep a Weaver Grand Slam 4-16x44 on it, which allows it to do just about anything that one might want to do with a .22 LR.

Current setup:


A few years ago with a fixed 4x scope:

 

[entropy]

A good CZ .22 bolt will take him from firing that first shot to rimfire competition, to the squirrel wood, etc. My second recommendation would be a Ruger 10/22, with Varminterror's comment above taken to heart. Teach him fire dicipline. When he's a bit older, I believe every well raised (which I have little doubt you son is/will be) young man and woman over the age of 18 (Not 21 as Walmart and Joe Biden wish) should have an AR. Both mine did, the oldest waited till he was 22, (he prefers walnut & blued steel) but the younger one bought his a month after he turned 18. They should be taught to use one, whether by family, a veteran friend, or ROTC/ enlistment.
By then, he will have formed his own opinions as to what kind of rifles he is inclined toward.

 

[Varminterror]

If I were to start with a repeater, I wouldnt start with a full magazine. Would you?

Starting my son, I loaded 1 round into each of 4 10/22 magazines. As trained, he took the individual shot, moved his finger off of the trigger. Mags thereafter were loaded fully, and he fired with purpose.

At two years old.

I’ve started 20 or so kids from 2-7 with the same method in the last 10yrs, on the same gear.

If a shooter can’t be trusted with more than one round in the rifle, they can’t be trusted with the rifle at all. Age notwithstanding.