First Reloads at the Range: the Good and the Bad

[Fredo0621]

First Post but lurking for awhile.


Gun: Glock 19
1st Load:
Bullet: Rainer 115 gr RN
Powder: Win 231 3.8 gr
Primer: WSP
COAL: 1.165

Many Failure to ejects. I have plenty of room to go up in powder so not an issue if its for not enough pressure. Had some trouble loading mags though not sure why.
2nd Load:
Bullet: 147 gr RN Rainer
Powder: Win 231 3.3 Gr
COAL: 1.169

No FTEs but could not load more three rounds in the mag. They would get stuck in the mag. Not sure why really. Any help would be amazing.

 

[MEHavey]

deleted

 

[MEHavey]

From where (who) are these loads coming?
Point of ref: 9mm is a 35k cartridge

115/W231/3.8 isn't even half that working pressure according to QL.
Speer Manual starts at 4.4gr(20,000psi), goes to 4.9gr(27,800)
Winchester (Hodgdon) lists 4.3gr Min, goes to 4.8gr Max [ http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp ]
Lyman has an anomoly in that it does start at 3.5gr (which QL--> 13.800psi --go figure), and goes to 4.9gr

147/W231/3.3 does get into the working pressure range
But is not one of Speer's recommended powders for this bullet.
(Lyman 48th lists 3.5gr/W231(23,000psi) as min, with 4.1gr(32,500psi) Max)

 

[Fredo0621]

These loads come from Rainer.

 

[MEHavey]

Rainier loading data (noted) notwithstanding, if a load starting at the bottom end fails to function the action, it is by definition too low.

As point of reference, I went to both the Ranier site (which says treat their bullets akin to lead), and then to the Lyman lead bullet data in QuickLoad. Quickload's projection for 3.5gr/W231 pushing a .357"dia, 115gr, LSWC(#358345) is only 12,000psi -- pretty much guaranteed not to function.

Kick it up to the mid 4's for the 115gr bullet.
(19,000psi for lead, still only 23,000 for jacketed)

 

[newrugersafan]

If they are sticking in the magazine they are either to long or diameter is to large.

Max OAL for 9mm is 1.169 sounds like you are right there on the 2nd load if they creep over by a few thousands that may be your problem. I don't have a Glock so I can't be sure what max. OAL is for the Glock mag.

The other possiblity is you are crimping to hard and bulging the case, max case diameter is .391 at the base and .380 at the case mouth. You should be able to see where the cartridge is binding up and make the needed adjustments. My guess is it is the OAL if they were to bulged to fit in the mag I doubt they would fit in the barrel.

These numbers are from the Hornady manual.

Mike

 

[noylj]

I am a BIG supporter of loading long, but I think you are too long.
The "normal" targeted length in most guns is 1.1280-1.1000", but I always load longer than that at about 1.1350".
In your case, try dropping the COL down by 0.01". You can take your loaded rounds and seat the bullets that little bit deeper. Try to load your magazine, and keep seating deeper until you can load the magazine.
Here is my compilation of 115gn lead loads using 231/HP38:

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max
L-RN 115 231/HP38 4.3 1079 Start
L-CRN 115 231/HP38 4.5 1042 Start
L-CRN 115 231/HP38 4.7 1193 Start
L-SWC 115 231/HP38 4.7 1443 Max
L-RN 115 231/HP38 4.8 1135 Max
L-CRN 115 231/HP38 5.0 1138 Max
L-CRN 115 231/HP38 5.2 1307 Max

 

[Fredo0621]

Thanks guys. I didnt want to veer from rainers info for the first run. I will go with my Hornady book.

 

[Walkalong]

Load the Ranier 115 Gr RN at 1.130. Bump the W-231 to 4.5 Grs with it.

I tried 3.7 Grs with it to duplicate a .380 for a lady shooter. It gave an Avg 861 FPS from a 3" EMP, but would not cycle reliably. Very low powered.

Welcome to THR

 

[LiveLife]

<Ooops, Walkalong posted as I was typing and +1 to what he posted.>

Fred, welcome to THR.

I find that I need to load the lighter 115 gr bullets to high/near max load data to reliably cycle the slides on my Glocks.

I use 4.8 gr W231/HP38 at 1.125" OAL for 115 gr FMJ bullet but you can try 4.5 gr for the Rainier plated bullet and see if you get reliable cycling of the slide.

Rainier plated bullet diameter is same as jacketed bullet (0.355"), so you may need to use the jacketed data. If you don't want to push the lighter 115 gr bullets to high range load data, try the heavier 124/125 gr bullets.

This is the load data from Hodgdon website who is licensed to sell Winchester powders:

115 gr. Lead RN Winchester 231 Diameter .356" OAL 1.100" Start 4.3 gr (1079 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1135 fps)
115 gr. GDHP Winchester 231 Diameter .355" OAL 1.125" Start 4.7 gr (1075 fps) - Max 5.1 gr (1167 fps)


125 gr. Lead CN Winchester 231 Diameter .356" OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1009 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1086 fps)
125 gr. SIE FMJ Winchester 231 Diameter .355" OAL 1.090" Start 4.4 gr (1009 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1088 fps)

 

[rfwobbly]

Fred -
Welcome aboard.

As others have said, your ammo is too long. I like to load plated RN at 1.140 to 1.150". The longer length will ensure great feeding, while the little extra space in the magazine from not being at 1.169" really helps with the mag operation.

If loading manuals are suggesting 1.100", there's nothing wrong with that, but then loading at 1.140 being longer will be ever so slightly lower in pressure.

My 115gr won't consistently operate the gun until about 4.3gr of W231.

Again, welcome aboard.

 

[Fredo0621]

I got my original data from here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=317439 on post number 21. But from seeing what everyone said I will go with hornadys info. Thanks again guys.

 

[Fredo0621]

BDS: I use the 115 gr for paper and the 147s for steel. The 147s are better(marginally) than the 115 at knocking down the plates.....the steel are beat up pretty bad at my range.

 

[MrOldLude]

It's not really apples to apples, but with my G19 and 115 gr Berry's, at minimum powder loads with the two powders I load with (WSF and Universal), Universal won't reliably eject at all, and WSF is right at the borderline w/ about 30% FTE.

Min loads for Univ and WSF were 4.0 and 4.9, respectively. The issues went away at mid-range load of 4.4 and 5.3. I also seat to 1.135".

 

[crimsoncomet]

I agree with everyone. THe 147g bullets are to long. I load 124g FMJ for my Glock 17 and 19 to about 1.150" with 4.0g of 231 or universal. I tried 3.8 with 231 and it was not 100% reliable. Now they are! Remember your bullets are plated and will not build pressure in the barrel like a jacketed bullet.

 

[rcmodel]

1. Up the powder charge.
2. Seat them shorter.

1.169" is not a suggested COL.
It is the SAAMI MAX length for the 9mm Luger cartridge.

Try seating them to a more reasonable 1.130" - 1.140" or so.

rc