First rifle help
- Thread starter Coreybien
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ol' scratch
Member
Don't really agree with this. The rifle is extremely heavy and makes good practice difficult.
ol' scratch
Member
Then he should get an M1 Garand. It is 30-06, can be had for $600 from the CMP, is SOVIET CALIFORNIA LEGAL in its original configuration, fun to shoot, drips character, and with a $35 gas plug makes a great hunting rifle. I know a few guys who use them on deer and many like them for hogs. 06' isn't much more punishing than the .308 due to the fact that the Garand tips the scales at close to 10 pounds.
He doesn't want a shotgun. Besides, he wants to target shoot and hunt with this. I am just not aware of any shot gun that can accurately sling a slug at a 100 plus yards. The Garand, however; is very accurate in the right hands, has great sights and is capable with some modifications of competing in rifle matches outside of just regular Garand Service Matches.
Geckgo
Member
Coreybien,
I was in the same spot as you a couple years ago. I had fired a gun before but my practice with shooting was very limited. I have friends that hunt and one of them hunts bear up north, so I wanted to get a rifle that was "big enough" should the need arise. 2 years later, I have not even been out to shoot deer yet.
I got a Rem 700 Bolt Action .30-06, put about 60 rounds through it at the range, then put it in its case and it sat for a year before I fired it again. Now I am comfortable shooting it. I think the hype made the muzzle blast seem like a lot more than it actually is, but I have a bipod for it now as well and I actually like shooting it. Meanwhile when I'm home I burn ammo thru my ruger 10/22 like it's going out of style and it's my "learning" gun nowadays.
If your 870 is a 12ga and you are comfortable shooting it, you shouldn't have any trouble with a 30-06. My neighbors wingmaster will kick my butt all day long but my 30-06 actually feels very comfortable to me now. Like I said, I think a lot of my flinch was the hype.
Like the others, I would reccomend the .22 for starting off, having learned the hard way, but if you are anything like me nobody will convince you to go that route. You may want to look into a .243 or a .270. The .270 shoots pretty flat from what I hear and would be great to 300yrds. Should be suitable for hunting too, though anything bigger than deer sized game and you will get mixed opinions about it at best.
I would say, think realistically about how long it will be until you plan a hunting trip. Think realistically that 30 cal bullets are about a dollar a piece, while .22 ammo costs nothing to practice with, even at todays bullet prices. As you modify your .22, if you get a really good scope, then you can hot-swap it to the 30 cal later on, so in reality, the .22 isn't going to cost you that much. Look at it like this...
Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60 - around 200 bucks
Rem 700 30cal - around 250-300 bucks
Optics will hot swap and you can get good rings and such, you may need to install a rail on either depending on where you buy. Here is a list of the swappable accessories that are pretty much a necessity for gun ownership.
Case - 20-50 bucks, get a good one that's too big, and your set when you get your hunting gun.
Optics - Look at spending between 300-600 dollars at least. Makes the price of the rifle look small doesn't it?
Leopold rings - 20 bucks
Cleaning kit and equipment - 100 bucks, we'll say
point, you are going to spend about 800 bucks on accessories for either gun (assuming that you are starting with a good scope). So when it comes time to go hunting will the relatively low price of a rem 700 make that much difference. Another thing to consider...
1000 rounds through a 22 - 40-100 bucks
1000 rounds through a 30cal rifle - 1000-2000 bucks
I know you aren't going to buy the 22, but at least let the idea float and think about how much you will be practicing and when you plan on hunting. Earliest probably next season, right?
I was in the same spot as you a couple years ago. I had fired a gun before but my practice with shooting was very limited. I have friends that hunt and one of them hunts bear up north, so I wanted to get a rifle that was "big enough" should the need arise. 2 years later, I have not even been out to shoot deer yet.
I got a Rem 700 Bolt Action .30-06, put about 60 rounds through it at the range, then put it in its case and it sat for a year before I fired it again. Now I am comfortable shooting it. I think the hype made the muzzle blast seem like a lot more than it actually is, but I have a bipod for it now as well and I actually like shooting it. Meanwhile when I'm home I burn ammo thru my ruger 10/22 like it's going out of style and it's my "learning" gun nowadays.
If your 870 is a 12ga and you are comfortable shooting it, you shouldn't have any trouble with a 30-06. My neighbors wingmaster will kick my butt all day long but my 30-06 actually feels very comfortable to me now. Like I said, I think a lot of my flinch was the hype.
Like the others, I would reccomend the .22 for starting off, having learned the hard way, but if you are anything like me nobody will convince you to go that route. You may want to look into a .243 or a .270. The .270 shoots pretty flat from what I hear and would be great to 300yrds. Should be suitable for hunting too, though anything bigger than deer sized game and you will get mixed opinions about it at best.
I would say, think realistically about how long it will be until you plan a hunting trip. Think realistically that 30 cal bullets are about a dollar a piece, while .22 ammo costs nothing to practice with, even at todays bullet prices. As you modify your .22, if you get a really good scope, then you can hot-swap it to the 30 cal later on, so in reality, the .22 isn't going to cost you that much. Look at it like this...
Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60 - around 200 bucks
Rem 700 30cal - around 250-300 bucks
Optics will hot swap and you can get good rings and such, you may need to install a rail on either depending on where you buy. Here is a list of the swappable accessories that are pretty much a necessity for gun ownership.
Case - 20-50 bucks, get a good one that's too big, and your set when you get your hunting gun.
Optics - Look at spending between 300-600 dollars at least. Makes the price of the rifle look small doesn't it?
Leopold rings - 20 bucks
Cleaning kit and equipment - 100 bucks, we'll say
point, you are going to spend about 800 bucks on accessories for either gun (assuming that you are starting with a good scope). So when it comes time to go hunting will the relatively low price of a rem 700 make that much difference. Another thing to consider...
1000 rounds through a 22 - 40-100 bucks
1000 rounds through a 30cal rifle - 1000-2000 bucks
I know you aren't going to buy the 22, but at least let the idea float and think about how much you will be practicing and when you plan on hunting. Earliest probably next season, right?
So the question is... How serious are you about hunting?
Myself... I'd pick up whatever you decide on for hunting before buying the 223 for further plinking Corey. But that's dependent upon whether you're more interested in plinking, or hunting. Then if you're planning on purchasing several guns, think about what you want to hunt, if you're serious about hunting. You may not need the 308 for hunting, if you don't plan on bear hunting anytime soon.
Check local law on calibers allowed for hunting in your state, or any state you intend hunting for that matter. Some don't allow 223 for big game, some don't allow assault rifles for hunting. You may only be able to burn up ammo at the range with that one. You can plink a lot with the 22, but if you're serious about hunting, I'd make my hunting gun my second purchase. Further plinking can wait until the freezer is full of venison!
That having been said, there are a lot of great calibers out there Corey, and as you're probably gathering from the responses thus far, everyone has their favorite. You need to decide what you want to do with the gun, first and foremost, then decide what you want to buy.
For the record, I own about 20 guns, and I still burn up a lot of 22 ammo!
Coreybien
Member
I'm going to get a .22 since I'd rather work on my shooting first.
oldfool
Member
smart move Corey
you said thinking bolt actions (best choice for pure target shooting, anyway)
Savage, CZ, Marlins all good choices in bolt rimfires
(Savage & Marlins truly great value and accuracy for the price, hard to beat 'em even with much pricier guns, pick something that rimfire shooter praise the trigger for)
stick with the 22 rimfire if looking to develop good off hand hunting/shooting skills
17HMR only if real/more serious about benched target shooting
also check out the rimfirecentral forums, google that
(and take all forum advice with a grain of salt, "woobie factors" you know)
take your time deciding on centerfires later
that will be more about targeted game/distance, and hunting terrain
and advice from those you hunt with, specific to those factors, will be of value for that
you said thinking bolt actions (best choice for pure target shooting, anyway)
Savage, CZ, Marlins all good choices in bolt rimfires
(Savage & Marlins truly great value and accuracy for the price, hard to beat 'em even with much pricier guns, pick something that rimfire shooter praise the trigger for)
stick with the 22 rimfire if looking to develop good off hand hunting/shooting skills
17HMR only if real/more serious about benched target shooting
also check out the rimfirecentral forums, google that
(and take all forum advice with a grain of salt, "woobie factors" you know)
take your time deciding on centerfires later
that will be more about targeted game/distance, and hunting terrain
and advice from those you hunt with, specific to those factors, will be of value for that
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Still Shooting
Member
I'll agree with the idea of a .22 for a starter, and as a former hunter safety instructor I like the idea of a bolt action - it's a lot easier to know when the gun is safe; if you can look at the open bolt and stick your pinkie up into the breech, you know the gun is made safe. Semiautos are potentially more accident-prone for a new shooter. Also, bolt actions are in general more accurate for target use. I personally started with a Savage bolt action .22 Hornet - the first summer I owned it (at age 14) I shot 97 woodchucks out of the local farmers' fields. Nowadays, the ammo $ puts it at a disadvantage vs. a .22LR, but it's a decent 150-200 yd. varmint gun.
For general hunting I would go with the recommendation on a .308 - versatile, accurate, and ammo is readily available at not-bad prices. I owned a Vanguard for awhile, and an M1A1 (Springfield Armory), and they were both fun to shoot.
For general hunting I would go with the recommendation on a .308 - versatile, accurate, and ammo is readily available at not-bad prices. I owned a Vanguard for awhile, and an M1A1 (Springfield Armory), and they were both fun to shoot.
Coreybien
Member
yeah. .308 seems like the best bet for later on. I think I am going to start with a Savage .22, then move up to a Remington 700 .308 later on.
Geckgo
Member
Nice choices! Did you have time to start browsing optics?
Coreybien
Member
Not yet. Help on a scope is next lol. What do you guys think?
henschman
Member
I think the Marlin 795 is a better deal than the Savage if you want a cheap .22. The Marlins go for $129 from the big box stores, but right now there is a $25 mail in rebate on them from Marlin. Magazines are a lot cheaper for Marlins than for Savages. They also have sling studs already installed, so you don't have to drill into your stock to put a sling on it. They come with a pretty decent trigger from the factory, too.
The best advice I can give you is to take whatever rifle you end up getting, buy a brick of ammo, a sling, and an extra mag, and bring it to an Appleseed marksmanship clinic. www.appleseedinfo.org. They have them all over the country, and there are plenty in California. I really wish there was something like this around when I was first getting into guns and learning to shoot. Attending an Appleseed will also likely give you a much better idea of what type of center fire rifle you want to get. It is a really great program. It is an all-volunteer program, so it only costs $70 for the weekend. It is the best instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship you will find anywhere.
The best advice I can give you is to take whatever rifle you end up getting, buy a brick of ammo, a sling, and an extra mag, and bring it to an Appleseed marksmanship clinic. www.appleseedinfo.org. They have them all over the country, and there are plenty in California. I really wish there was something like this around when I was first getting into guns and learning to shoot. Attending an Appleseed will also likely give you a much better idea of what type of center fire rifle you want to get. It is a really great program. It is an all-volunteer program, so it only costs $70 for the weekend. It is the best instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship you will find anywhere.
sappyg
Member
+1 on appleseed. i'm an old guy and i am looking forward to a clinic.
'and gladly would he learn and gladly would he teach'
'and gladly would he learn and gladly would he teach'
So you started off wanting a decent hunting rifle and ended up with a .22 rimfire? What happened?
CDNN has Howa 243 bolt action rifles with the sand colored Hogue stock for $329. That is a solid, accurate rifle that will take deer, hogs and black bear. The recoil is not bad at all and practice ammo can be found for relatively cheap (around $13-$15 or less per box) Spring for the good stuff before the hunting trip (Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition) and make sure you fire 3-5 rounds of it to confirm zero on your scope...
Now about optics...
People will tell you that a 4X scope is all you need and that is crap. Just like a you wanted a hunting rifle and people are telling you that a 22 rimfire is what you need.
I would look for something at least 3x9 or better yet 4x12. Nikon is currently offering their 4x12 Prostaff for $170, and Burris is closing out their 3x9 fullfield II scopes for $119. These are both reliable scopes that will serve you well for many years... more importantly, you will be able to reliably aim at your intended target, be it paper or meat and be confident that you are in the vital zone or bulls-eye, not just the "center" or the "center mass" of the animal. The current best deal out there is the Vortex 2x7 from SWFA... the incredible optics outweigh the lack of magnification and the price is only $169
So buy what you want... a hunting rifle with a good scope.
You don't have to spend a fortune for an accurate, reliable hunting rifle with a good scope... and you can have confidence you are buying something that won't be utterly useless when you have that one chance to take a nice hunting trip..
Just my .02... oh... and of course practice with it... that goes without saying...
Rifles:
Howa Ranchland
Savage Edge/Axis
Marlin XS/XL Series
Stevens 200
Scopes:
Nikon Prostaff/Buckmasters Series
Burris FFII
Vortex Viper 2x7 (probably the best optics)
CDNN has Howa 243 bolt action rifles with the sand colored Hogue stock for $329. That is a solid, accurate rifle that will take deer, hogs and black bear. The recoil is not bad at all and practice ammo can be found for relatively cheap (around $13-$15 or less per box) Spring for the good stuff before the hunting trip (Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition) and make sure you fire 3-5 rounds of it to confirm zero on your scope...
Now about optics...
People will tell you that a 4X scope is all you need and that is crap. Just like a you wanted a hunting rifle and people are telling you that a 22 rimfire is what you need.
I would look for something at least 3x9 or better yet 4x12. Nikon is currently offering their 4x12 Prostaff for $170, and Burris is closing out their 3x9 fullfield II scopes for $119. These are both reliable scopes that will serve you well for many years... more importantly, you will be able to reliably aim at your intended target, be it paper or meat and be confident that you are in the vital zone or bulls-eye, not just the "center" or the "center mass" of the animal. The current best deal out there is the Vortex 2x7 from SWFA... the incredible optics outweigh the lack of magnification and the price is only $169
So buy what you want... a hunting rifle with a good scope.
You don't have to spend a fortune for an accurate, reliable hunting rifle with a good scope... and you can have confidence you are buying something that won't be utterly useless when you have that one chance to take a nice hunting trip..
Just my .02... oh... and of course practice with it... that goes without saying...
Rifles:
Howa Ranchland
Savage Edge/Axis
Marlin XS/XL Series
Stevens 200
Scopes:
Nikon Prostaff/Buckmasters Series
Burris FFII
Vortex Viper 2x7 (probably the best optics)
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sappyg
Member
sappyg takes the high road here. stsimons goes his own way.
sappyg
Member
then... then... go your own way brotha.
The .22 route
If you do start out with a .22, be sure to check out rimfirecentral.com.
A very popular rimfire scope on a budget is the Mueller APV. Mine is in the mail
. The fella I bought the rifle below from had a $1500 Nightforce on it 
.
If you want to torture yourself a bit, in particular how far a 10/22 can be stretched, check out http://www.coolguyguns.com/. I'm eagerly anticipating delivery on one of his full builds. The original sale price was a bit north of $1500 and while I much paid less, I still haven't gotten over how much I paid to admit it. Oh, and you can easily pay up to $0.40 a round for high end .22LR ammo. Who said rimfire was cheap 
?
Your Savage (452?) is a good choice for a well priced, accurate shooter. A "Rusty" Kimber 82G from CMP are a hard value to beat for a bolt .22 at $400. The Kimber is also probably a solid investment if you ever decided to sell it.
Appleseed is great advise as well, but you'll be at a disadvantage with a bolt gun at Appleseed due to the pace of shooting. I'll be attending my first Appleseed in the spring with my Kidd rifle and my girlfriend with her tuned, TechSighted 10/22.
If you do start out with a .22, be sure to check out rimfirecentral.com.
A very popular rimfire scope on a budget is the Mueller APV. Mine is in the mail
. The fella I bought the rifle below from had a $1500 Nightforce on it .If you want to torture yourself a bit, in particular how far a 10/22 can be stretched, check out http://www.coolguyguns.com/. I'm eagerly anticipating delivery on one of his full builds. The original sale price was a bit north of $1500 and while I much paid less, I still haven't gotten over how much I paid to admit it
. Oh, and you can easily pay up to $0.40 a round for high end .22LR ammo. Who said rimfire was cheap ?Your Savage (452?) is a good choice for a well priced, accurate shooter. A "Rusty" Kimber 82G from CMP are a hard value to beat for a bolt .22 at $400. The Kimber is also probably a solid investment if you ever decided to sell it.
Appleseed is great advise as well, but you'll be at a disadvantage with a bolt gun at Appleseed due to the pace of shooting. I'll be attending my first Appleseed in the spring with my Kidd rifle and my girlfriend with her tuned, TechSighted 10/22.
JTJones
Member
If you want a 22 rifle check out the CZ 452 or 455 at CZ USA. The cz is one of the if not the most accurate rifle in 22 i have ever shot.Trust me you will be amazed at how well balanced and accurate they are.
sappyg
Member
i see you
Coreybien
Member
Yeah, I was actually decided on a CZ .22 instead of a savage after I checked them out at a gun shop today.
If you don't have much experience with rifles, a .22lr is great to start out with. They are accurate and the ammo is very plentiful and cheap. It is a great rifle to start with for practice. Rifles chambered in .308 Winchester tend to be a bit pricey, especially if you go the semi-auto route. The same is true with .223 with the AR platform. Building your own rifle will save you a couple hundred bucks, give or take.
If you are wanting a .308 in semi-auto, I'd look into getting an Imbel FAL, DSA Stg58, or a Springfield M1A. Also, do not rule out 7.62x39. No, it won't be accurate past 100-125yards most of the time (with SKS and AK platforms), but the ammo is very plentiful and much cheaper than .308. Also, the SKS and AK are well made and can be had for 1/4-1/2 the price of popular .308 rifles.
Also, +1 on what Tomcat said about lever-action. You can't go wrong with a Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. And for that extra punch, try a .45-70.
One last thing... I see that you live in Cali. Make sure the rifle you choose is legal in your state.
If you are wanting a .308 in semi-auto, I'd look into getting an Imbel FAL, DSA Stg58, or a Springfield M1A. Also, do not rule out 7.62x39. No, it won't be accurate past 100-125yards most of the time (with SKS and AK platforms), but the ammo is very plentiful and much cheaper than .308. Also, the SKS and AK are well made and can be had for 1/4-1/2 the price of popular .308 rifles.
Also, +1 on what Tomcat said about lever-action. You can't go wrong with a Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. And for that extra punch, try a .45-70.
One last thing... I see that you live in Cali. Make sure the rifle you choose is legal in your state.
Geckgo
Member
Send pictures
jwallace410
Member
absolutley, if you are looking to plink, .223 ( 5.56 army) is a good plinking rifle and good for small game. IN the army i was easily hitting targets out to 200-250, without an acog, with easily 300 oce it was zeroed. I went to a class where it was 10 days of shooting teaching long range shots with OUR m4 AND ACOG setups and having spotting scopes. I was judging wind and all and confirmed hits out to 500-600 meters, of course the hold was aBOUT e-type n a half right and a head high with 3-5 mph wind half value... but all im saying AR-15 platform are easily customisable and easy to learn basics and easy to clean.. if you wanna go bigger, savage 10 and 110 fp are great tactical choices in .308
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