First thoughts California Sig P226 Dark Elite

[Dudedog]

1. I like the pistol overall.
2. The SRT trigger is nice
3. IMO California loaded chamber indicator is ugly
4. The magazine safety looks like something that might break at a bad time
5. Night sights are cool (my first set)
6. The adjustable sights, are, well, not really adjustable

(Pics here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=768450)

For me the sights were about 6" low and 2" left 10 yards. I like the POI to be the top of the front sight blade when the sights are lined up. Some say Sig adjusts thier sights for a "combat" sight alignment, the middle of the front blade on the POI, anyway I thought no problem I will just adjust them, that's why I wanted adjustable sights in the first place. Since it has an "adjustable" sight the low (elevation) part part was easy to fix at the range. A little allen screw with click adjustments.
However......
The screws for the windage adjustment (tiny allen screws)to move the rear sight will not come loose.
I talked to Sig.
(Fairly quick getting a Customer service rep on the line, not like holding a hour+ for Taraus.)
They said they used locktite on them. I was informed that you will almost certainly have to apply heat to loosen the screws to adjust the sight and after adjustment they need locktite put on them again. (Think I will try purple if I ever get them out, The first Sig person I talked to said use RED, the second one said use Blue....so Red and Blue togather = Purple ) I have not had time to heat it up and see if I can get them loose. I am very disappointed, this is not my idea of an adjustable sight if it requires a blow dryer/heat gun to adjust. My fault, I guess I should have called Sig before buying it to find out what was necessary to adjust thier "adjustable" sight. To me adjustable means it can be done in the field with simple hand tools, no sight pusher, heat gun etc. required.
Maybe other people managed to do thier's without heat but mine won't turn even when you twist enough to bend the tiny allen wrench provided for the task. :banghead:

OK, now that that's out of my system
I come to the other issue. About two hundred rounds in to my first range trip and I start getting some failures to hold open after the last round is fired. (using Sig mags included with the pistol) Maybe this is just due to it being new (hopefully) or maybe it just won't go that many rounds without cleaning?. Will just have to try again and find out if this is the case. Both my Taraus and Springfield 9s do 500 rounds) easy without being cleaned. (did 500 rounds of flaming dirt Bullseye with cast lead bulllets in the Taraus once) Is this a common problem on new Sigs or Sigs in general?
More break in time needed?
Improper lube?

Don't misunderstand me I do like the pistol overall. One of the reasons I bought it was because of the adjustable sight.
The Sig was one of the few 9mms offered in CA with factory adjustable sights, and I had heard good things about them. (Both P226 and Beretta 92 passed military trials)
I just hope the failure to hold open issue will go away after another couple hundred rounds and it dosen''t have to go back to SIG. (note: I also have heard rumors that for a while SIG was not honoring the warrany on CA pistols, but I don't know this for a fact) Also no mention in the documentation about the loaded chamber indicator, magazine safety or adjustable sights. No big deal but you would think they could provide accurate documentation even if it is a seperate little paper from the little manual that is already included.

I suppose I could tell it I am going to trade it in on a (insert most hated 9mm pistol here) and maybe it will behave, but that's no way to start a new relationship.

This sort of sounds more negative than I intended but I will let it stand as is and hope none of the mods zing me for straying to far from The High Road.
PS: Mods, I started a new thread if you feel it would be better on the end of my other thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=768450 please move it for me. Thanks.

 

[Old Dog]

About two hundred rounds in to my first range trip and I start getting some failures to hold open after the last round is fired.

Couple things can happen ... a strong recoil spring, before it gets worn in a bit ... Or, were you getting a little tired and letting your thumb slip down a bit so it started riding on the slide stop? This happens to me occasionally during heavy range sessions or after I've been shooting a lot of 1911s (I ride the safety on the 1911 pretty much) ... You have to develop a conscious habit of keeping the thumb off the slide stop ...

Maybe this is just due to it being new (hopefully) or maybe it just won't go that many rounds without cleaning?.

The 226 can go a LOT of rounds before needing cleaning becomes an issue ... just keep the slide rails lubed.

 

[Dudedog]

Thanks Old Dog,
I did not think about possibly having my thumb on the slide stop but it is possible given the location on the SIG and would explain what was happening. Towards the end of the session I was playing around with my grip a bit since the pistol is new to me. On my other pistols (1911, XD, PT99) the slide release is farther forward.
So it is possible that the issue is aaaarrrrrrrggggg
USER ERROR.

Since it is brand new so it could be the spring is still really stiff as well.
Will give everyone an update after my 2nd range session.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If the slide fails to lock back, it is easy to determine if it is the gun or the user...just shoot a few shots, at the end of the magazine, left handed

 

[JR24]

When I was having some issues with slide lockback on my SR1911 CMD* I did testing by loading one or two rounds in each mag and being extra careful about my grip in regards to the slide lock.

Didn't take terribly long to determine the issue was specific to certain mags and not my grip's fault.


**turned out to be an overly tight extractor and the weaker 8 round mag springs, easily fixed and it runs perfect now.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When I was having some issues with slide lockback on my SR1911 CMD* I did testing by loading one or two rounds in each mag and being extra careful about my grip in regards to the slide lock.

While that will also work, the SIG Classic P-series pistol are really a very different animal as to the location of their controls.

I standardized on the grip that works with the SIGs and only change it when shooting a 1911...where you need to ride the thumb safety...since I have to grip the backstrap differently (not as high) also

 

[Dudedog]

2nd range trip

Ok the failures to hold open after the last round were due to my right thumb resting on the slide catch.
Old dog hit the nail right on the head.

My 1911 grip method is not going to work here. Just used to having the hand high on the grip, right thumb on the side of the frame pointing the same direction as the barrel.
Maybe not the best grip method but it has worked for me in the past an old habits are hard to break.

(also reminded myself that left hand unspupported makes it a bit tougher to try to hit my POA......well ok lots tougher!)

I am liking the pistol ok. Another 500 rounds no problems.
I seems to shoot well.
I am going to try to tackle removing the rear sight screws to adjust it Sunday night. That way if I can't get them out I won't be all weekend.

Just disappointed in the rear sight hassle, especially since I am still shooting left of POA and I would not expect hassles with a pistol at this price point.
Less than thrilled with Sig quality concerning the rear sight.
Jury is still out on how that issue makes me feel about total overall quality.


Red dot was initial POA but I changed a little to try to get them in the center so they would probably be tighter if I hadn't tried to adjust POI.
All 10rnds @ 7 yards both hands, unsupported.
This was about an average day for me, I have better, I have worse.

BE86 photo here.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=206809&d=1420931596

The California 10 round mags are a real PITA getting round #10 in and I do have a strong right tumb....(it likes to hold down slide releases)

Oh and that was someone elses Sig, I would never shoot reloads thru mine as the manual advises against it.
If anyone is interested I can look up the OAL of the rounds.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The UpLula loader is your friend

Have you tried shooting off a rest?

 

[BSA1]

Dudedog,

Have you checked to see if you are cross-eye dominate?

Try shooting it using your left eye instead of your right (close your right eye).

 

[Dudedog]

9mmepiphany,
I have not tried off of a rest.
Is this to see if it still shoots left off the rest and I am doing something?
It is new to me and because of control location I am makeing changes to what would be my "normal" grip.

Thanks for the thought BSA1 but I am right handed right eyed.
Vision is not what it used to be but that is another issue....

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'd suspect that you are applying pressure with the fingertips of your strong hand or that you are trying to grip with that thumb.

 

[JR24]

The UpLula loader is your friend

I could not agree more strongly. Even the dreaded #10 in the Glock 30 magazine is a snap with an UpLula.

 

[Dudedog]

OK I will try shooting off a rest next range trip to see if I am still left. I am not saying the shooting left is a quality issue with the pistol, but the rear sight is IMO. I may hold off on trying to move the rear sight until I follow 9mmepiphany's suggestions. (would hate to have to try to move it twice!)
So we have operator error as an cause of being left. (possible but it is my understanding that this is a very rare occurrence )
possible causes
Kung Fu grip of Death with strong hand fingers
thumb
sights off (for me at least)
all of the above

I will try adjusting my grip again to see if I can do something to correct the shooting left. That's why I ran into the slide release issue the first time because I was attempting to make changes to see if it was my grip.
(Experience over the years has shown me that I occasionally do things wrong)

I also may try putting a $10 grip sleeve on it to see if that makes differnce.
(jell-dog likes his Houge grips so I may try a pair....would be funny to remove those "cheap" Sig AL grips)
But in the end if I can't make an easy grip adjustment that feels natural to me I will need to adjust the "adjustable" rear sight.
Hopefully the grip screws will come out without having to be heated.....

Side note:
I shot a mag or 2 left hand unsupported just to do it every now and then, but am not good enought that way to really tell were I am shooting,
however I can do it well enough to hit something fairly large if I needed to.

By the way nice links 9mmepiphany

 

[Dudedog]

Going to try 9mmepiphany's suggestions and see if that helps!
I also ordered a grip sleeve and some Houge grips.
If none of this helps I will just have to take the heat to the rear sight and see if I can get out those screws. :banghead:
Will update afterwards.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The San Joaquin Valley is huge, you wouldn't happen to be toward the northern end (toward Sacto) would you?

 

[Dudedog]

OK, it is only a tinsy bit left when I rest it on a bag. So it is my grip....sigh
The Pachmayr Grip glove and playing around a bit with my grip seemed to help. Still a little left though. May give it one more range trip to see. I made an effort to not apply pressure with my finger tips and to keep my right thumb on the left support hand.

I am making friends with it still so I will hold off on trying to loosen the screws from...well the adjustable sight screws.

Target is one of the best of the day, 9 rounds, six touching. (no need to fight with getting #10 in the mag) The three not touching are my fault.:banghead:

The pistol seems to shoot well.