This is the first time I have tried loading anything other than Jacketed bullets and I need an answer. I bought some coated Semi Wadcutter bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. and I am using 40 S&W nickel R&P cases and I had belled them for jacketed bullets. I started noticing a little lead being shaved off of the bullet when installed to col and swaged. I rebelled the cases bigger and the shavings came when the bullet came to the part by the head of the bullet not when it started entering the case. I thought that my belling wasn't big enough so I rebelled them a little bigger. What I am wondering is: Is the lead shaving being caused by the taper crimp being too much or what is causing the lead to be shaved. Not every bullet is being shaved so can someone familiar with Lead Semi Wadcutters and loading Nickel cases tell me what I might be doing wrong?? Thanks to everyone who knows the answer to my question.
FIRST TIME LOADING LSWC QUESTION???
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Soonerpesek
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Not to start a wave of controversy, but are you seating and crimping in the same step ?......I have found separate steps ease that issue.....
Charlie98
Member
+1
The case mouth is being tapered in as the bullet is still being seated... there will almost always be a little shaving. The fix for that, as was suggested, is to seat and crimp in 2 steps... it's one of the reasons I bought a 5-station press. I have separate crimp dies for most of my handloaded cartridges for this reason.
Do your brass a favor... don't overflare the case mouth. If it's enough to hold the bullet and not shave when you initialize the seating process... that's perfect.
FROGO207
Member
As said above I have to modify my reloading procedure and seat and crimp in separate steps when using coated bullets. With standard lead or jacketed bullets I crimp/seat in one operation
^^^This^^^
Only if you can adjust the seat/crimp die perfectly can you avoid shaving lead (most of the time). Much better plan to seat and crimp separately for coated LSWC.
Don_P
Member
How consistent are the bullet diameters?
For my handloads, yep all of them, I buy a separate crimping die. I tried seating and crimping in one step but for me, getting the adjustment just right took way to much fiddling. My seating die and my crimp die don't need much readjusting from batch to batch, and besides, I get better crimps with profile or collet crimp dies...
With a few of commercial PCed bullets I bought long ago, I believe the curing time was too short. Good neck tension would scrape coating during seating...
With a few of commercial PCed bullets I bought long ago, I believe the curing time was too short. Good neck tension would scrape coating during seating...
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243winxb
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The inside diameter of the seat die can be to small. The case bell is reduced before the case mouth gets near the taper crimp section.
.38 Special
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@Soonerpesek almost certainly gave the answer. It could be something else, but probably isn't. If the issue bothers you, then seating and crimping as separate steps will most likely solve it.
That could be a possibility. It could be verified if the case was raised partially into the die after belling, and mouth is measured before and after.
AJC1
Member
When using lead there are a few tools that help. The first is a two step expander. The Lyman m, noe or rcbs dies all have a two step vise a bell. The second benifit of the two step is straight ammunition. With an swc and a flat seating stem crimping in a second step a larger seating die may also help. Loads of bacon discusses using a 40 for 9mm to prevent the crimp and shaving as you describe. A final solution is to get a die set ment for lead loading like the rcbs cowboy. My standard rcbs dies have always been fine in 9mm, 38, 357 and 45.
Sounds like you’re crimping too much, but make sure you’re belling enough. A taper “crimp” should be only enough to remove the bell/flare, maybe .001 more on the longer cases so it gets fully removed on the shortest ones.
Neck tension holds the bullet, not the taper “crimp”.
Yes, it’s easier to seat and taper crimp in two steps, but it isn’t hard to do in one step with proper taper “flare removal” on auto cases.
Neck tension holds the bullet, not the taper “crimp”.
Yes, it’s easier to seat and taper crimp in two steps, but it isn’t hard to do in one step with proper taper “flare removal” on auto cases.
This has happened to me with my .458 Win Mag seater and coated bullets
gwpercle
Member
Lyman M-Die is your friend when seating soft lead bullets .
1.) Bell case with correct Lyman M-Die . Cast bullets are larger than jacketed and the M-Die is made to expand the case properly ... the expander in a regular die set is made for smaller jacketed bullets ... no good for larger softer lead .
2.) Seat the bullet but do not crimp in this step .
3.) Crimp the bullet in a seperate step ... with no seating .
Yes all the extra steps are a pain in the keester ,,, but 50+ years loading lead have taught me it's worth the extra effort . Coated bullets just about demand these steps .
Gary
1.) Bell case with correct Lyman M-Die . Cast bullets are larger than jacketed and the M-Die is made to expand the case properly ... the expander in a regular die set is made for smaller jacketed bullets ... no good for larger softer lead .
2.) Seat the bullet but do not crimp in this step .
3.) Crimp the bullet in a seperate step ... with no seating .
Yes all the extra steps are a pain in the keester ,,, but 50+ years loading lead have taught me it's worth the extra effort . Coated bullets just about demand these steps .
Gary
tightgroup tiger
Member
Something else you can do to help the problem is chamfer the inside of the cases so there isn't a sharp edge there on the mouth. Nicks on the case mouth also contribute to this problem and chamferring takes care of that also.
Its a pain in the posterior with Semi auto cases but if you have a drill press or even an electric drill you can speed the process up a lot and it won't be so hard on your hands.
Its a pain in the posterior with Semi auto cases but if you have a drill press or even an electric drill you can speed the process up a lot and it won't be so hard on your hands.
not sure if this is technically correct, but when I started doing this, things smoothed out for me, loading LSWC in .38 special. bell the case mouths just until the bullet can be set into the case and you can get it to snug in there - so you can flip the case over and the bullet with kind of just barely stick in there and not fall out right away.
haven't done a ton of taper crimping, but some - if you can really feel any heavy pressure when applying a taper crimp it is too much, the brass does not take much pressure from the die to flatten out the bell. I never had any real luck doing a crimp and a seat in the same step, and just always do it as 2 steps now.
haven't done a ton of taper crimping, but some - if you can really feel any heavy pressure when applying a taper crimp it is too much, the brass does not take much pressure from the die to flatten out the bell. I never had any real luck doing a crimp and a seat in the same step, and just always do it as 2 steps now.
LiveLife
Member
+1. Below pictures are MBC Hi-Tek coated 124 gr RN with a slightly different nose profile than Lead lubed RN SmallBall! (Note the slight flat tip) that now fully chambers in my Lone Wolf barrel with very short leade (Non-coated SmallBall! would not chamber fully chamber no matter what taper crimp I used).
Bullets are sized .356" and .378" taper crimp was used, which essentially returned case mouth flare back flat on bullet base (.356" + .011" + .011" = .378"). Seated and tapered crimped in one step using Lee combination seater/crimp die and no shaving of coating.
TIP #1 and #2: Keep in mind that if you are shaving coating during seating, it may be due to irregular resized case lengths. If you set the case mouth flare with a longer resized case, shorter cases will receive less case mouth flare. And if you set the taper crimp with shorter case, longer cases will get more taper crimp amount and dig into the coating. (This is why some reloaders prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps, due to reloading variables beyond their control like using mixed range brass with significantly varying resized case lengths)
TIP #3: Consider that different headstamp brass can have varying case wall thickness and using thinner brass like Blazer/.FC. to set the taper crimp will make thicker case wall brass like R-P/WIN to receiver more taper crimp (Inside Diameter) to dig into the bullet/coating more - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10712225
MBC coated and lubed lead bullets seated and taper crimped in one step without shaving coating/lead.
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yes, crimp just enough to remove the bell of the case.
because of different case lengths.
i suggest you seat and crimp in separate steps.
luck,
murf
p.s. just thought of another reason for the intermittent shaving. the seating stem pushes on the top of a lswc bullet and the bullet lengths can vary by quite a bit. still suggest seat/crimp separately.
gwpercle
Member
You load semi-auto rounds differently than revolver rounds .
You can get away with seating and tapercrimping jacketed and cast lead bullets in one step by creful die adjustment .
Coated lead bullets for revolvers and lever action rifles , that have a crimp groove and are "Roll Crimped" into that crimp groove ... will be much better served by using separate seat and crimp operations .
Don't get too carried away with case chamfering ... too much leads to neck cracks ... it's no substitute for a Lyman M-Die type expander .
Gary
You can get away with seating and tapercrimping jacketed and cast lead bullets in one step by creful die adjustment .
Coated lead bullets for revolvers and lever action rifles , that have a crimp groove and are "Roll Crimped" into that crimp groove ... will be much better served by using separate seat and crimp operations .
Don't get too carried away with case chamfering ... too much leads to neck cracks ... it's no substitute for a Lyman M-Die type expander .
Gary
I measured the rim of the case after taper crimp and it measured two thousands bigger but plunked great. Guess I will seat and crimp in two steps. Like I said in my original post, the shaving of lead was very minute and not every case did that. Guess I will have to go to the range and find out about any leading and I will load one box of 50 in the two step process and see where I stand then!!
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