First time Single Action purchaser

[Ryan Williams]

Hey all,

I am looking to purchase my first Single Action revolver in 45LC. I own a number of pistols and have participated in both USPSA and IDPA competitions. I am looking for a first SA revolver to practice with because I hope to eventually begin shooting SASS matches.

I have my mind set on the .45 LC caliber and for now I'm going to only purchase one pistol. (I plan to purchase a matching set down the road.)

I really have my eye on the Ruger Bisley Vaquero and it is the right price. I plan to be shooting mostly 'cowboy' loads but I do plan on also using this pistol to carry out in the woods on the property up north and would like to have the option of carrying higher power loads.

My question is this, I always hear that Ruger's vaquero can withstand higher pressures than the older Colt SAs. However I was just recently told that Rugers 'New Vaquero" was built on a slightly smaller frame and like the old colts, should not be used to fire higher power loads.

So, is this this Ruger Bisley Vaquero one of these "New Vaqueros" or will the Bisley Vaquero be able to handle higher than 'cowboy action' loads.

Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[DickM]

The Bisley style grip and hammer was and is, respectively, made in both the original Vaquero and the New Vaquero, and you are correct in the difference(s) between them. The New Vaquero will be clearly stamped as such - if it just says Vaquero then it's built on the same frame as the Blackhawk and can handle the same hot loads.

 

[BCRider]

Consider that full power .45Colt loads are stout things. But there's no reason at all why a NV Bisley can't carry mid power loads that can still do the job. It's not like you need to carry either soft cowboy loads or full power "pedal to the metal" rounds with no ideal in between options.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

For what you're wanting, the Vaquero will be fine. Even the new model. You can't shoot the "Ruger Only" wrist breakers in them, but it doesn't sound like you would need to. The new model Vaqueros will handle standard power loads, (around 1,000 fps) with no problem, and that should be fine for your carrying in the woods. Your cowboy loads are probably going to be in the 800 fps range. I bought a New Model Blackhawk, but I had deer hunting in mind, so I wanted the larger frame and the ability to shoot the heavy stuff if I wanted too. The .45 Colt is awesome. You'll love it. Especially if you handload.

 

[MachIVshooter]

My question is this, I always hear that Ruger's vaquero can withstand higher pressures than the older Colt SAs. However I was just recently told that Rugers 'New Vaquero" was built on a slightly smaller frame and like the old colts, should not be used to fire higher power loads.

So, is this this Ruger Bisley Vaquero one of these "New Vaqueros" or will the Bisley Vaquero be able to handle higher than 'cowboy action' loads.

In a nutshell, the new Vaquero is not as strong as the old ones, but still stronger than the Colt SAA. It can't take the .44 mag+ loads that the old ones could, but warm loads generating 600-700 ft/lbs are OK.

FWIW, the Uberti's are a true clone of the original Colt, but can handle warmish loads. I use 250 gr. Gold Dot hollow points loaded to 1,080 FPS in my 5.5" Stampede (A Beretta marked Uberti with a transfer bar) as a "carry" load (when I actually carry the thing in the field). But for most range work, a 255 LRNFP at ~900 FPS is just peachy. Still has authority, but doesn't batter the gun (and my hand).

 

[Ryan Williams]

Awesome info guys, than you for the feedback.
I'm going to go this afternoon and see what I can find at my local gun shop. I'll keep you all posted!

 

[Red Cent]

Ryan,
As a competition shooter i have to assume you have the competitive juices flowing. If so, you will wind up getting 38s for SASS. There are few, if any top shooters using 45s. As you know in the other competitions, follow up shots are very important. Be aware the power floor in SASS is almost nonexistent. I shoot 105 gr LSWs with 3.2 grs American Select. 790 fps with little recoil. I use old 3-screw Blackhawks super slicked up. They will not set off CCI or Winchester primers.
New model Rugers in 357, Uberti replica of an 1873 Winchester 20" barrel, and aM1897 pump.
Thats about $3000.00 retail. To make those guns run competively, add another $400-500.00. Boots and leather should run about $700.00. Then you start thinking about reloading..........and you gotta have back up guns......
You really should go to a local cowboy match or two. Check out the guns. You will rarely see a Win 92 or 94. Marlins and Winchester rifles. Rugers and Colt. USFA or Uberti Smoke Wagons.

 

[jmortimer]

I have had both "old" and "new" Vaqueros - the new ones are better in my opinion - tolerances are right on for the new ones. The cylinders are shorter so you are limited to about 280 grains bullets. You can go to 20 k psi. Go down to page seven - this is the best write up http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL_234_preview.pdf
The 20 k loads are on page 6 - http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf That is about 750 ft pounds with a 11.5 mm pre=expanded bullet. Should be able to shoot through just about anything. For serious work use a Beartooth Bullet 280 grain LBT WFN or the Penn Bullets 270 grain Thunderhead with 10 grains of Unique.

 

[loadedround]

Buy the Vaquero! You will never have regrets buying this fine revolver.

 

[Ryan Williams]

I shot USPSA for about 7 years and for the past two, I have begun shooting IDPA. USPSA for me has just gotten too competitive... It's is almost not enjoyable anymore. IDPA on the other hand has rekindled my flame for competitive shooting. It's not about who has the most tricked out gun, it is more about you knowing how to operate your gun. I have been hearing a lot of talk about SASS from a couple guys at my club and It sounds like a good time. But I have never owned a SA pistol...

Anyway enough about that.... I did stop by my local gun shop and to my surprise, they happened to have a pristine used Vaquero in .45 LC for just over $400. I bought it, figuring I would use it to cary around in the woods and learn get familiar with how the SA functions.

Red Cent, I appreciate the great advice... Even though I picked up one in .45 Colt, I think I am going to sell my Open class STI 2011 in 38 super I used for USPSA (which I haven't shot in three years) and 'invest' in a pair of SA revolvers in 38/357, a lever gun, and a coach gun.

Good thing I already reload.... It sounds like a lot of fun...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It's good that you handload. Trail Boss is great for plinking loads for the .45 Colt. Sure can't beat a Ruger IMO. Pics?

 

[W.E.G.]

The single correct answer since 1873.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

Keep in mind that there are other options out there besides the colt SAA.
there are conversions of the 51's and 60's and even rem's 58. also there is smith and wesson top breaks too. Just saying there are other options out there. ( on another note you should think if you want to compete in the black powder classes or the smokeless powder classes.)

 

[DWFan]

A good SAAMI pressure field load for the .45 Colt is the RCBS 45-270-SAA over 7.5gr of Titegroup. According to Brian Pierce of Handloader magazine, this recipe will generate 950 fps in a 4.5" barrel and not exceed 14 kpsi. Bumping it up to 8.5gr of Titegroup puts you at 20kpsi and 1050 fps. In a New Vaquero, I'd split the difference. A 270gr SWC at 1000 fps should do for just about anything you run into.

 

[brucets11]

I'm a regular SASS shooter and you'll not go wrong with the Ruger's. For SASS though, the 38's are the better way to go and what the majority are shooting. The transfer bar mechanism is great so that you can carry the 6th round when in the woods and you can also use the 357 magnum.

 

[BCRider]

But sticking with .45Colt or going .38Spl for SASS is up to the shooter. Do they want to do whatever is needed to win or are they just looking to have a fun day at a fun match and want to do it with a gun and cartridge that is more faithful to the Old West? Not everyone is out to be the match champion at every event.

Heck, I'm shooting cap and ball because it's so different and fun to shoot. And I enjoy the direct connection with history by using a gun that shoots the exact same stuff now that they did back then.

 

[Ryan Williams]

I tend to agree Brucets11 ... 38's are probably the way to go. I will just have to find myself a nice matching pair now...

BTW, just an update. I picked up my (used) Ruger Vaquero .45 today and I am already in love with my first SA. No I just need 2 38's to add to the collection.

Here is another question. those of you who are shooting SASS with 38's. are you actually using 38 cases? or are you using 357 brass and just loading them don for SASS?

 

[BCRider]

For my cartridge guns ( I shoot cartridge when it's raining rather than deal with the frustration and FTF's of black powder in the rain) I went with .38/.357 purely because I already reload for my S&W DA revolvers and wanted to keep the number of cartridge sizes down.

For the revolver I'm using .38 cases because they don't care one way or the other. For the Rossi '92 rifle I found that it feeds more consistently with .357 cases with FNRP bullets or truncated cone bullets. The TC semi wad cutter bullets tended to hang up but other than a "bump" in the lever travel loaded fine. However I had to use some store bought .38Spl simple round nose 158's recently and oddly enough those fed into the rifle best of all.

But I'm looking at trying some black powder cartridge loads. If I go that way it'll be with .357 cases so they hold an honest 20 grains instead of the wussy 16 grains that a .38 case will hold.

Oh, and the rifle is REALLY fun to shoot with near max .357Mag loads of 2400 behind a 158grn bullet.... Not for SASS obviously but for general plinking or longer range gong ringing it's great fun. And it would work well for close to mid range deer or varmint control.

 

[Eb1]

Not a Vaquero, but I just bought a Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum. Wonderful gun. Love it, love it.
You will be happy with a Ruger for sure.

 

[Red Cent]

American Select
3.2 gr with a 105gr lswc. Use it in the pistol and rifle. 38 Special brass.
12 gr, Claybuster wad, 1 oz shot.

Ruger 3 screw Blackhawks
1873 Winchester
M1897 Winchester
all slicked to the ultimate.


BCRider, of course it is up to the shooter. Just like me. First pistols-Colts SAA 4 3/4" nickel 45 Colt. Took about a year and I bought the Blackhawks. They tried to tell me but (here you pound on your chest) I had to have 45s. Had a very long rant typed but i decided not to. I have seen so many shooters get the terrible holsters, bad shotgun belts, and the wrong guns. When I used to travel, there was my nickel Colts, a pair of special order blued Colts in 38 Special, two sets of Blackhawks, and a pair of tricked out first gen Vaqueros. I addittion, two 1873s in 38 and one in 45. And leather. Also two solid frame M1897s. I was fortunate enough to be able to loan them out to allow these people to experience the weapons.

I was pretty successful. Between Cody Conagher slickin' 'em up and my practice. 30 minutes every night. Every night. Home or motel. Rifle, shotgun, pistols.



Competitive? Get 38s unless you want both and that is super. Be careful. Cowboy is addictive. The circuit is addictive. The comradeship is addictive. The alcohol ain't .

I figure i dropped about $15,000.00 a year travelin' and shootin'. Joined SASS in 2000. SASS #29170Life.