First time to pull my side arm today

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SimplyChad

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Montgomery Co TX
Today i went hiking with my wife, dog, roommate and her boyfriend.( He is another guy in my unit) Anyway we just got in the car coming out of the canyon turned down my street. The roads here in el paso are mostly narrow with people parking on both sides. 3 guys were standing behind a car when we had to slow to go between a really narrow gap between there car and another. The lead guy was staring at us then just freaked started screaming at the car waving a tire iron. My first thought was to take off which in the gap with a stop sign less than 15 ft ahead would have been really dangerous. My window was down and he was close by that time I pulled my .380 and showed it barrel out at him. He stopped put his hands up and gave me enough room to leave. All this took place on my road less then 4 blocks from my house. Really unsettling.
 
Do you have any idea what made him freak out like that? That could have escalated quickly. At least you didn't have to put the dude down.
 
I'm glad to hear everyone is okay. Some additional details may be helpful

  • Was the guy with the tire iron actually coming toward you?
  • Did you feel your life was being threatened?
  • What did the police say / do after 911 was called...if they were called?
  • Could you not have simply rolled up the windows and driven away? Even if you were to sideswipe a car or two at low speeds, that's what insurance is for.
  • Reflecting back, do you think that pulling your firearm was the best option?
With respect, it *sounds* as if there may have been an eagerness to use a firearm as a first resort, not as a last one. I wasn't there so I have no clue and I'm not passing judgment, just a feeling I get from reading your post.

The good news is that you all made it home safe and sound.
 
Shakespeare said...

All's well that ends well.

You do not need to justify your actions to us or anyone else.

It was a bad situation and you got out without anyone being injured or killed.

IMHO, you did just fine.
 
In Texas showing a firearm such as you did is considered brandishing, bad juju. Did you immediately call 911 and report the incident before he called and reported YOU for brandishing in a threatening manner? Be careful.
 
I don't know what he was saying part English part Spanish one part I did understand was the you think your better than me and yes he was coming at me eye to eye contact. No mistaking that. And the low speeds part well if you know el paso piedres isn't exactly a low speed street I would have been crossing blind. And when I said barrel out I mean I took aim. No brandishing just aim and he was maybe 4 ft from the window. This is why I posted this. Would y'all consider this justified? Didn't call the cops maybe I should of.
 
Didn't call the cops maybe I should of.

Most would say you should have. Maybe. Truthfully though, it is highly unlikely that it would have helped and most likely would have been a royal PITA on your end.

Not really trying to say this is right but the best intentions are always the most thoroughly punished these days.
 
Call the police definitely, could easily have been an attempt at racially motivated crime. You got off without any trouble but what about the next person who came down the street and gave him what he felt was the stinkeye. Or maybe he was just asking for help with his car and made an honest mistake with his English so he ran off and reported you and your license plate number to the police.
 
Chad - why buy trouble by calling the LEO's at this point. Check with your friends FIRST, ask them to recall their version of the events (don't "suggest" anything), maybe even have them write a short statement up without talking to each other.
Then, IF the cops contact you, give them copies (NOT the originals) of your friends' statements.
 
I just don't see where a cop fits into this story at all. Perhaps this guy was going to hurt him, but he didn't. Maybe he would have gotten shot, but he didn't. Why involve police?
 
cmat, my post didn't specify, yeah its too late to involve them now but at the time maybe the guy was looking for help. By not informing the police SimplyChad has put himself in a position where the man involved could call the police and report SimplyChad for brandishing. Further if the man was in fact a BG by reporting him to the police it does give the police something to go on, perhaps hes been doing a string of robberies where he pulls someone out of their car beats them up then takes all o their valuables. We don't know, and neither does SimplyChad at this point, by involving the police he prevents the guy from painting him in a bad picture and potentially gives the police information they may be looking or.
 
Chad, for future reference, the area around WBAMC isn't terribly safe for military. Lots of us live there, but a lot of the locals have something against us. Be careful.

Incidentally, my fiance was nearly carjacked a few months ago in a very similar scenario downtown. Hence our search for a revolver (the Hipoint just can't be trusted at this time).
 
Having been in a similar position myself, I don't think there is anything to be gained by calling police. They don't know who the good guy or bad guy is in this matter. With no physical evidence, it's just your word against his/theirs. And by the way, letting someone see it on purpose is brandishing. Pointing it at someone is actually an assault in the state or georgia. If he can describe what your gun looks like, the cops have you. It then becomes your burden to prove it was justified. A terrible feeling I know first hand.

What I learned was that I will need some kind of evidence if it ever happens again. Let him land the first blow to the windshield, or make a mark on you of some kind. You will need something to show other than your story of what you thought he was going to do. I was lucky. Sounds like you were lucky too. Learn from it and keep your gun hidden from view next time. Never show it until you have just cause to shoot and no other options.
 
I'd have done the same thing as SimplyChad. A guy yelling at me and approaching me with a weapon of any kind is going to see my carry pistol. He's shown me his and I'll show him mine. Calling 911 isn't going to do any good unless you think the police can show up in seconds. Calling 911 to explain what went on is just going to cause lots of complications. A jackass like the one who backed off after being shown superior power isn't going to call the cops to tell them a guy showed him a gun while he was screaming and waving a hunk of steel. Makes more sense to me to show him the weapon than bung up two or more cars. Then you'd have complications for sure how you gonna explain that one to the insurance company or the police that you'll need to call to get a police report to turn in to the insuance company? My congratulations to SimplyChad for disarming a potentially nasty situation with minimal force.
 
I'd have felt the need to draw as well. It's either

a) Don't draw, situation never escalates

b) Don't draw, bg smashes your window, you're covered in glass, fumbling for your weapon, and are going to be drawing to fire, immediately

c) Draw in the hopes of preventing further escalation


C seems the best to me.
 
No brandishing just aim

bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.

n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

What you did was textbook brandishing.

In the future, you might want to try a loud, stern warning "GET AWAY FROM THE CAR!" before actually drawing and aiming a gun at someone. But as has been mentioned, we weren't there. What you did worked, and things didn't go sideways. Glad you came through safe & sound.
 
For those of you saying no draw, would the situation change if the object was something other than a tire iron? Say, a multitool pocket knife?
 
Kingkin: Uh, no. Brandishing is displaying a weapon with the intent to intimidate in a situation where you are not in immediate danger. The OP drew and aimed a weapon with the intent to shoot an imminent threat. That's far from "A menacing or defiant wave or flourish."

A man armed with a knife can kill you from 21 feet away before you can draw your gun. The guy was 4 feet away and closing, waving around a tire iron - which is a much deadlier weapon than a knife, BTW.

Personally, I think I would have gunned it to the stop sign and see if he followed. I would have wanted more space than 4 feet. Hopefully, I could have sped away after a "California stop."
 
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To the people in this thread who don't think pulling a CCW weapon in this situation was the right decision; How is it not? I mean really? You are boxed into a tight space with limited movement options, in a car with the window rolled down, and a guy with a tire iron is inside of Tueller distance and approaching while yelling at you?

Getting hit with a tire iron is going to be a pretty brutal injury, especially considering the only available targets are going to be your head, neck, chest, shoulder and left arm.

Yes, he might have tried to drive away. But he's already said there was only a narrow opening between cars and a stop sign dead ahead, which means a cross street and potential traffic. It sounds like an all around "rock and a hard place" position to be in and not seeing it all for myself I have to give the benefit of the doubt.

The bottom line is if he felt his life was in danger and the best option was to pull his CCW then he did the right thing. We can all armchair quarterback all day long but what it all comes down to is this. At that time, in that place, he felt his life was in danger and he pulled his carry weapon to defend himself from that perceived threat. That is the EXACT reason people carry a concealed weapon in the first place. Our thoughts on if it was warrented are irrelevent. The potential threat stopped and the incident ended without any injury or loss of life. The best possible outcome.

The after action decision on chosing to call or not call the police is not so cut and dried and will have supporters on both sides. I'll leave that debate for others. But I say if he felt threatened and thought pulling his weapon was the safest thing to do at that time then he made the right decision.
 
I would have done exactly as you did as any more delay could have had injury involved and yelling him to get back and away would only escalate the problem.

My only issue would be if i would call the cops or not, By law you should have.
But by common sense its best to not invite issues as you know the other guy isn't calling the cops. If he does you have plenty of witness's so no worries.

So i see a .380 is better than a tire iron, But is it better than a sharp stick? lol
 
Call the police, for sure.

The following has happened before:

Good guy feels threatened, pulls gun. Situation defused, doesn't call cop.

Bad guy calls cops and said "some crazy guy pulled a gun on me." Cops come after you.

Especially if you have to fire. I've seen stories of where the "good guy" had to defend himself against 3 assailants, 2 were shot, and the 3rd called the cops and blamed the good guy for defending himself, and it was a big stink.
 
Forget all the squawking about "brandishing", a tire iron is capable of applying lethal force. Perhaps you should have called it in, too late now.

My biggest concern is that you abandoned your retreat method by fumbling with a weapon. As the driver you should be looking for a way to flatten or evade some idiot with a melee weapon, your passengers should be the ones arming themselves. You had THREE other adults in the car, why are you doing anything but alerting them and staying available for operation of the vehicle. (if I'm mis-reading your OP, please correct me)
 
Glad everything turned out ok. And I don't know if I would take that same car route for awhile if you could help it. Very your driving route/routes. Stay vigilant.
 
....you have a gun for your safety....

....you saw a guy yelling, coming at you with a tire iron.....

....you feared for your safety and pulled the gun......thankfully no one got hurt.




....i fail to see what the problem is........i say good job.
 
Yeah let him leave a mark on you , like bashing in your head with the tire iron? Chad you did the right thing. You did what you had to do to get out of a nasty situation.
 
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