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Fixed choke for upland birds?

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ArmedBear

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Sep 8, 2005
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If I buy a fixed 26" barrel for a 12 Ga semiauto, should I get Modified or Improved Cylinder?

I've hunted dove and quail; I could hunt pheasant or chukar without traveling too far. Our quail are really spooky, though sometimes they do flush close. They fly straight away, though, and fast.

I'm thinking Modified, but wondering if I'm overestimating the distance at which I'm likely to take the birds.

Thoughts?
 
In the old days while the earth was still flat, *most times* fixed choked barrels ran:
26" -IC
28" -Mod
30" Full.

Then again just because something is marked - don't mean it tosses as marked.

Depend on the bird and area hunting I guess. I was always partial to 28" for balance, swing, and follow thru. Didn't matter if the bbl *said" Modified, I could toss Cylinder bore to Full patterns with it...
We tweaked loads and stacked shells. Keep saying all these newfangled chokes and doodads messing up folks and shooting.

Whichever one feels right to you in handling is the one I'd get.

One can get Cylinder bore, IC and Mod patterns from a full choke as well...lots of quail taken with a full choked 30" bbl - that tossed cylinder bore patterns for the first shot, and IC for the second. ...just gotta know what load to use...

:shotgun smilie:
 
Personally, I concern myself less with the type of bird being hunted as with the type of cover in which they will be found (recognizing that the two are linked however).

For grouse and woodcock I use a cylinder-bore Model 12 which has a barrel a bit under 24". It throws nice open patterns out to about 25 yards... which is well beyond most of the shots I see.

For pheasants, I usually run pretty tight chokes. Most of my pheasant hunting is done with a fixed Full-choke Model 12, or with a Benelli Montefeltro using an Improved Modified tube. The reason I do this is because I've normally got pretty open terrain and I'll often let others take the first shot or two, so that it's rare that I take a shot at less than 35 yards. Also, if I do have one get up close, I can let it get out a ways without missing the opportunity entirely.

Now, if it were me, I'd probably go with the Modified. My reasoning is that it should be easier to find shells which pattern "up one and down one" degree of choke than it would to find them patterning "up one and up two" degrees. Besides, I always tend to err on the side of tighter patterns, especially on game.
 
Hmmm...

Any tips on how to load shells to shoot larger or smaller patterns from the same choke?
 
Do you reload?

In general, things which can open patterns:

* increased velocity
* less protective wads/shotcups
* spreader inserts
* softer shot

Things which can tighten patterns:

* less velocity
* highly protective wads/shotcups
* buffering material
* harder shot

Hardness of shot is probably the easiest to mess with... even if you don't reload. In general, value-pack loads and cheaper game loads will use softer shot. Premium target loads will use harder shot. Pattern both and see the results.

Ballistic Products has a wide variety of wad designs (and reloading data) you can use to achieve particular results. Simply looking through one of their catalogs can give you some good ideas.

I'm also sure that Steve will be along shortly. Just don't start asking him about popcorn loads. ;) :D
 
Thanks! I do reload.

Is 'chilled shot' softer than 'magnum' shot?

I've been using 6% Antimony Magnum STS shot, but only for targets.

I guess I could just use the cheap Federal bulk 1290 fps stuff. That's probably soft, with a crummy wad. Three spreader factors for cheap.:)

As far as more or less protective wads, does that mean petal thickness, petal spacing, petal length vs. load, or ???

By buffering material, do you mean something like Cream of Wheat mixed with the shot to fill in air gaps between the pellets, or something else?

What about shot amount? Does 1 1/8 tend to make a denser pattern than 1 oz., a larger pattern of similar density, or just a longer shot column?

I wish I could see like Superman. Flying shot patterns would have a story to tell.:)
 
:)

I was waitin'...and Trapper did an excellent job of 'splainin'...as ususal of course.


Tell you what, give me a bit and I'll start another thread. Just remember one thing until I do ...

Matter of bore - not choke
 
Pattern, pattern, pattern. And experiment a lot with either varying brands/loads of factory fodder or different components in your reloads. Spreader inserts in the shot charge, back in the days of felt wads and cardboard overpowder wads, some reloaders used to stack in 1/4 to 1/3 of the shot charge, put in an overpowder wad, then repeat till the shot charge was loaded (no one piece wads in those days, ya know, you could cut the petals back on those newfangled one-piece plastic wads to experiment this way nowadays).

Some folks divided the shot charge along its long axis by cutting cardboard Xs out of shoebox cardboard etc. and sticking them in the shell before loading the shot.

Or a piece (or two or three or four pieces) of plastic weedeater string (depending on diameter) cut to the length of the shot cup on your wad and inserted into the middle of the shot charge might do something to open the pattern- Federal used to use 'post' wads that had a plastic post molded into the middle of the shot cup for their spreader loads. Haven't tried this one myself yet, just thought of it. Might work... .

I used to take the top to a big metal can, put it on a smooth finished concrete floor, pour a little soft shot into it, and lightly pound the shot with a flat faced framing hammer to flatten it out a little bit. The flatter you flattened the shot, the more open it would blow a pattern. You could get wide open patterns even out of 30" full choke barrels with that stuff if you wanted. Some company or other used to make SQUARE shot for this same purpose (no joke), I did good as a kid just being able to buy chilled lead round shot to reload, so I had to improvise.

Modern technology has done a lot to improve patterning with shotguns. It's easy enough to go back in time and undo those technological advances if you want. I can't advise you on what choke to order in your new barrel, as I have never shot at half the stuff you're talking about hunting. I don't have a clue as to range, terrain or the toughness/hardiness of the targets you plan to hunt. But you can do enough stuff experimenting with different sized shot, different shot and powder charges, different wad colums etc. to vary patterns a LOT. And you can load a tubular magazine so that the last shells out pattern better at longer range while the first shells loaded into the chamber open up more, assuming game going away from you as you shoot. You can use all the advantages you have with the gun you are shooting if you know how to do it- it's sure been done before.

Or you can cheat and carry a SXS or O/U and have two chokes available... 8^). That's ultimately what I wound up doing, carrying a SXS bird hunting, but I would often still load different loads in each barrel.

Enjoy,

lpl/nc
 
AB - One item I intentionally left off my previous list is shot size. All else being equal (like it ever is :rolleyes: ), larger shot will tend to stay in the pattern longer, while smaller shot will tend to fly away faster (primarily due to more rapid velocity loss).

The reason I left this off the previous list is that I believe in picking the shot size based on the game to be hunted and then work-up/find a load that works with that size shot.

In general, I shoot smaller birds (grouse, woodcock, dove, huns) with #7.5 or #7 shot. Preserve pheasants and chukar will generally respond well to #6 factory loads. However, wild pheasants get a handrolled 1 1/4oz of (often nickle-plated) #5, moving out smartly.

As far as the amount of shot goes... when I'm loading hunting shells, I stay with 1 oz loads unless pheasants are involved, and then I switch to the 1 1/4oz -- but then I'm increasing shot size and hardness substantially. I can't make a direct apples to apples comparison.
 
A_Bear,

Lee wrote:

Pattern, pattern, pattern. And experiment a lot with either varying brands/loads of factory fodder or different components in your reloads.

Those are the best words ever written!!!!

As for the 'best' barrel length, choke combination. . . I've posted this before, I am thrilled with my Hastings 24" barrel w/ 2-3/4" chamber for upland game.

While I normally choose the modified barrel for pheasant, I honestly believe that the load has just as much to do with the way that the shotgun performs.

I use 1-1/8 oz of shot traveling right at 1200 fps., however, what works for me MIGHT NOT work properly for you, so, I won't list my specific load unless you really want to try it. (It's not a magic potion. . . . really.)

To repeat what Lee said,
Pattern, pattern, pattern. And experiment a lot with either varying brands/loads of factory fodder or different components in your reloads.

Keith
 
I could hunt pheasant or chukar without traveling too far. Our quail are really spooky, though sometimes they do flush close. They fly straight away, though, and fast.

with or without a dog ?

if you walk up birds, your shots should be longer use more choke or let far flushers go.If you get a close flush "say god bless you little quail" then mount and shoot, don't want to tear-em up. no mcnugget meat :)

with a pointer go with the more open choke.

What about shot amount? Does 1 1/8 tend to make a denser pattern than 1 oz., a larger pattern of similar density, or just a longer shot column?
1-1/8oz in a 12 gauge is the square load what the bore was made for.
 
Back in the dark ages.....

I used 7 1/2 shot for doves, either IC or mod choke, depending on how high they were flying. I used 8 shot and IC for quail. If I had a buck for every dove and quail I shot, and ate, I would have several M2 Browning MGs now. I used, and still have a 16 ga Remington Model 11 Sportsman with a Poly Choke...........my nephew is trying to wear the gun out now. I got it from my grandfather when I turned 13 in 1957......chris3
 
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