Flint or Cap?

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I'm mostly into shotguns but today I'm expanding my horizons.

Both flint lock and percussion cap were available during the Civil War, but which was more numerous? What was most common in the Union camps versus the Confederates?

I'm thinking I could acquire a newly used Springfield for re-enactments. My work specializes in museum films. Makes sense. Then I could take it to the renaissance fair and announce that "I've been to the future! It's amazing!"

What do you folk know about the variety of weapons? Information here may help to convey an accurate experience of the Civil War in a museum exhibit and film.
 
Ask around here for Old Fuff, Gentleman of the Charcoal or Hawg Haggen. I think both of them are old enough to have been around during the Civil War and can tell you what was used from experience. :D :neener:

Actually, by the 1860's, percussion was the way to go. Government arsenals had already been converting flint to percussion. Only a few individuals, like John L. Burns of Gettysburg were known to have used flintlock rifles, and he was a civilian butting in.

As far as reproduction goes, if you are not familiar with black powder, then percussion will be more enjoyable for you than having to figure out the intricacies of flintlocks.

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
During the War of the Rebellion

Flint guns were phased out or converted to cap ASAP by both sides. The last time I heard about flint guns being carried was the militia boys who were called up to guard the Union PoWs at Andersonville.

As for which gun to get, I like flint. Cap is easier to use, but flint is more fun. However, since you're into making authentic Civil War films, go percussion and write it off your taxes.

What films did you work on? I've been watching some small production company films and there is no shortage of attention to detail. The lighting may not be the best nor is the acting, but it's certainly more credible than any Hollywired/weird production.
 
I second the flint. It's the real deal. Caplocks were something of a passing technological fancy to fill the gap before brass cartridges came to the forefront. They were only around for a few decades. Flintlocks were dominant for the better part of two centuries.

They have a reputation for complexity which I found ill-deserved. Caplocks have actually posed many more ignition problems for me than flintlocks. As long as your frizzen is properly hardened, your lock well made and your rock reasonably intact you'll get sparks. You do want to use real black with flintlocks, of course.
 
As other posters have noted, flintlocks were obsolete by the Great Unpleasantness Between The States. Some were used, as both sides were desperate for weapons, especially in the early months, but the percussion cap was about 35 years old and a well-established technology.

Now, there was another issue depending on the exact period you are portraying. Officially, the standard arm of both sides was supposed to be the rifle-musket. But those ran out very fast, and most troops in the 1861-62 campaigns were armed with smoothbores. Confederates more than Federals, as the Union had more industrial capacity than the South.
 
One of the coolest repro guns I ever saw at a CW event was a 3rd model bess converted over to caplock, with a drum and nipple installed where the touch-hole had been, and the lock reworked, and a hammer added. A very nice piece, and very correct for a Southern impression.

Then I could take it to the renaissance fair and announce that "I've been to the future!"

I'm sure you are joking as Renaissance Fairs do not allow folks to bring in firearms of any type, even BP arms. (at least not the reputable ones) Even if they did it would be quite rude to do so. Among the living history community it is considered "poor form" to cross time lines..., even when the Ren Fair stretches the point beyond all reason to allow Pirates (for profit) to walk about, a caplock would be offensive.


LD
 
My experience with flint locks proved to me beyond any doubt that there was a GOOD reason for the invention of the percussion cap.
 
^^ Cracked me up!


Seriously, if you want "Civil War authenticity," I'd opt for a percussion rifle. I'd like to add an Enfield to my collection at some point.

But I don't see how you can beat a flintlock for pure fun. My first sidelock was motivated by PA's late "primitive" hunting season, which dictated flintlock and iron sights. So that's what I bought ... and I couldn't be happier! Great fun at the range, and I'm looking forward to hunting with it. As I said, I'll probably add a percussion rifle at some point, but I can't see how it will be more fun than the flinter.
 
Percussion was by far the most prevelent in the Civil War. During the first year and maybe part of the second there were some units using flintlocks. I know for sure that at the Battle of Shiloh there were flintlocks. Probably Wilsons Creek, Fort Donelson etc. Any later than that and most had obtained percussion firearms. If your goal is to portray a Civil War soldier, a percussion rifle would be the way to go. Probably a Springfield or Enfield.
 
In the words of a prayer that was published in a muzzler loader magazine years ago the answer to which on to get "And the Lord said let there be flint".
I was a cap guy for years until a guy talked me into trying his rock gun, i was converted instantly and now i shoot a 54 hawkin flintlock(round ball gun), and two 62 caliber smooth bores that are flinters also.
 
I suggest you check out the North-South Skirmish Association and see what is the most common type the use. Or visit with some of the many re-enactor groups and see what they can tell you.

Some flintlocks were used during the War. Heck, some flintlocks are still used today but military use drove technology then and now. The more advanced the technology, the better the odds it was considered by the military.
 
Every time I try to open a tin they get scattered on the ground!

Never considered myself to be all that religious.:D
 
I can see the objections to a CW era flinter, even though some were used. I've seen a great many antique flinters converted to caplocks from around the pre-CW era, so it seems most people who could switch did. Caplocks were the latest and greatest.

But apart from reenactment issues, the flintlock holds a special place in history. Knapping goes back well over a million years, so when you're shooting a flintlock you are rooted back to the very beginnings of man and before.

I also have no doubt that a well tuned flintlock is more reliable than most caplocks.
 
When the war stated the armoreys where full of old flint guns and that was the main gun for the first year of the war.
 
So both? Makes sense. Caps being around for a few decades really wasn't that long in the time period, i.e. there wasn't a total conversion to caps from flinters yet.

I think we forget in this super fast paced world we live in how much slower paced change was back then. Jeez 10, 12 years ago cell phones were still a new thing, now I walk around with a powerful computer in my pocket that I can make phone calls with. :what: Things didn't change like that back then.

I've often wondered what life was like in a time when children grew up and lived in a world that was exactly the same as the one their parents grew up in. Must have been able to relate to each other better. Slow in some areas is sometimes nice.;)
 
how much slower paced change was back then

Don't be too sure about that. A person born in the 1820's US would have grown up in a world where there was no heavy industry, the only power source was animal or primitive water wheels, everyone rode horses or carriages, most people were farmers, cities were small, slavery was commonplace, the frontier still started a few days from the Atlantic seaboard in many states, most of the territory beyond was controlled by native tribes, millions upon millions of buffalo roamed the plains, the birth rate was truly incredible, and the United States were (yes were) a small, second rate power. That same person in the 1890's would live in a world where the cities were enormous, heavy industry was churning out products, steam power was ubiquitous, slavery was gone, Congress spent a billion dollars a year, the US was claiming its global empire with a great fleet of steamships, the frontier was something Buffalo Bill offered as entertainment, the tribes were all but gone along with the buffalo, smokeless powder was very rapidly replacing black, and the first automobiles were being made. There were telephones, wireless, Edison's DC, Tesla's AC, and all the technology of the 20th century in its infancy. Muybridge captured horses mid-air in perfect clarity. Short films were produced that showed things like monkey and pet antics--pretty much like Youtube does now. Nothing about it was stagnant or hidebound. Our fellow would be born in a world little changed from Medieval and early modern Europe and travel at 60 MPH by rail to the great Columbian Exposition in Chicago in his retirement to see wonderments undreamed of.

I could list about a hundred other fundamental changes. But suffice it to say a person born in 1820 who died in 1911 would have seen much more fundamental change than a person born in 1920 who died now. If we had kept that same pace I'd be living on Mars now and target practicing with my magrail rifle and gyrojet pistol.

To get back to firearms in particular, from the physical evidence and primary sources, I see little evidence that the 19th century Americans were interested in clinging to the old ways, particularly after the biggest of the old ways was crushed in the Civil War (and even that old southern society was nowhere near as gentile or traditional as Gone with the Wind would suggest). They mostly adopted and adapted to change very rapidly. They were actually quite a bit younger than we are now, on average. So when the percussion system came into being, there were very few holdouts. The old flintlocks were torn up and converted or just tossed. People who didn't keep up with the times were treated in a similar fashion.

It's only been since WWII, and thanks to the work of a few stalwart gun nuts, that we have preserved any of the traditions of the black powder days. The folks actually living back then couldn't ditch them fast enough. I was just reading last night about how almost all the knowledge of black powder cartridge rifles was tossed aside and lost after the advent of smokeless. It's been carefully reconstructed over the past few decades by reverse engineering and trial and error. Folks have even scrutinized the sales receipts from buff hunters to see what kind of paper patch material was used. Most Americans in the 19th century would have considered this activity worthy of a mental institution (which were also primarily a creation of the 19th century). They'd consider us nuts for bothering with the smoke poles at all. In a fundamental way, *we* are more old-fashioned than they were.

that was the main gun for the first year of the war.

Do you have a source on that? My understanding has been that there were some flintlocks around in 61 and 62, but even at the start the bulk of firearms on both sides were caplocks. Militias across the south had been arming in preparation for hostilities and the federals had been switching over to caplocks since the 40's. It was my understanding that the Mexican war was the last one, perhaps globally, to rely primarily on flintlocks. But I could be wrong about that.

Sorry about this. It's what happens when my history and gun geekery meet!
 
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Well Cosmo, I disagree. Yes there were a lot of important discoveries in the time period you mentioned. However that spans 3 generations AND many of those advances such as the phone wasn't in reach of most people. i.e. science was advancing but it didn't have an immediate effect on most peoples daily life style.

I don't know how one can exactly compare the effects of inventions on a society from on time period to the next. However, the advancements in flight alone truly change this world into a smaller much faster paced place. Cars? Nukes? TV? Computers? Space? Internet? Cell phones?...... All have had immeasurable effects on a local and GLOBAL scale and did so in a few years not decades.

On top of that there wasn't the pop culture influencing people daily through TV and internet that we have today. Things change at warp speed in today's world.

Interestingly it seems a lot of the technology made in the last 20 has had profound effects on the world but in a subtle way. Information is power. Much of what has been invented is about ways to store and spread information. People are just now, as we have seen in the Middle East, figuring out how to use that power.

On the topic...I agree, get both types of guns.
 
Flint

I have both but.....I haven't shot the cap guns since I started using the flintlocks.
I second the earlier comment about flint guns having an undeserved reputation for complexity. The three that I use rarely fail to fire - and when they do, it is always something I didn't do properly. Properly loaded, ignition time is virtually instantaneous.
Pete
 
i.e. science was advancing but it didn't have an immediate effect on most peoples daily life style.

Sure it did. It's true that the phone, electricity early autos and so on were not widespread during the period. But look at the changes on the ground. In 1820 you'd be growing up in an almost late medieval world, even in New York City or Boston. Everything you wore was hand made, everything you ate was locally produced. Every manufactured good was hand-fitted, including the firearms. Populations were small and the technology of life was not terribly dynamic. Fast forward just to 1870 and life is unrecognizable. Train tracks are sprawling from one coast to the other. Journeys that took years and risked life and limb take days now. Not over generations, mind, but WITHIN generations. Joe Meek, for example, came out of a primitive world in Virginia, did his trade in the pre-historic west, and ended up settling in Oregon where he lived long enough to see the frontier replaced with railroads and industry.

Compare that with my own grandparents, born in the 1910's and passing on in the past decades. They grew up with autos and drove to the mountains on the weekends. And they kept doing it all through until the 1990's. When they grew up a trip to the east was something that took several days. That was indeed shortened to the better part of a single day. But that's a much less significant jump than the one from wagon trains to rail.

To bring this to firearms, consider that the two greatest innovations in recent history were in the 19th century--Hall's interchanging parts and Vieille's smokeless powder. And both radically altered life in the space of a lifespan. Just consider how incredibly fast people, even civilians, adopted smokeless in the 1890s'. I've seen many photos of men coming to Alaska in the 1890's and early 1900's and an amazing number have already switched to such high-tech weapons as the '99 Savage. Professional hunters switched over almost immediately, not even waiting for civilian models to come out. And today we're STILL SHOOTING with the same powder and the same basic designs that almost all originate before the first world war. We're the ones who are slow to change.
 
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