flint question to flintlock shooters

[rusty bubbles]

I recently bought some gun flints in Brandon, England- home of flints and flint knappers

They had been beautifully made- hard to believe by hand, in a matter of minutes-
All had sharp, perfect chisel edges, and it was easy to see how they could be "dulled" by firing . my question is- about how many shots do you get from a flint before it is too dull to function properly-I saw movie recently, about an 18th century warship- and the Captain ordered all guns to be fitted with new flints, prior to battle.Also, I read that soldiers with flintlocks were accustomed to rotating their flints before action to line up the best edge- another question here- were flints held in the cock between leather?
Someone has claimed that thin lead sheet was the norm- but that sounds a bit ponderous to me

I'd appreciate any info from you trad. shooters!

Rusty B

 

[Pat McCoy]

A lot depends on the individual lock, and the the angles of the cock, the flint, and the frizzen. I get 20-25 shots without knapping on one rifle, and almost double that on another. Usually get 60 to eighty shots (knapping as needed) befor ehaving to turn the flint around to use the other side.

I have seen locks that were poorly designed that would break flints every 5-8 shots.

 

[tkendrick]

I have a fine little Dixie cadet in which I can get up to 20 shots before I have to chip the flints.

I also have a Repro US 1816 musket which will generally do about the same. All of this depends a great deal on both the quality of the Flint and the shooter.

Flints can be too long, too short, too soft, not square, etc.etc.
Most of these situations are readily solved by adjusting the flint in the lock, but it does require a shooter who has the knowledge and more importantly has paid attention. It only takes a couple of minutes to put a new edge on a dull flint, once you've learned to do it. The can be re-shaped untill they get to the point they are too short for the jaws to grip.

Actually, lead sheets were standard practice for the military in the 1700's. Soldiers would take an issued ball and flatten and shape it, not as difficult as it sounds, and bend it to fit the flint to the lock. Over time and use the flint would loosen, but it was a matter of seconds to give the jaw screw another half twist.

Leather is more common now days, but you will occasionally be told it's not as safe as lead. There was an accidental discharge at a NMLRA sanctioned shoot a few years back that was attributed to an ember burning in the leather patch holding the flint.

I've used both, and primarily use leather just because of the time factor involved, but either one works well for me.

 

[rusty bubbles]

Wow! thanks for the interesting information you guys- you covered everything! Very interesting about the soldiers making their sheet lead by flattening bullets- I never would have known that.- My only experience with a flintlock was, as a boy, I got an old horse pistol working , by going to a road-mender's hut, and swiping a jagged lump of flint for it.-it just about fired!

Thanks again

Rusty B

 

[karlsgunbunker]

I started out using leather to hold my flints but it burned.
I switched to lead. Just flattened a round ball with a hammer and cut to size with scissors. Holds better than leather and doesn't burn.

 

[GunTech]

Both leather and lead have been used and both have their proponants. You can get many, many strikes from a single flint, particularly the good English blacks. You have to renew the edge occasionally.

 

[DixieTexian]

You might try using the leather sheet weights glued to the bottom of piney wood derby cars if you want something easy to make that holds the flint. It might be easier than hammering a ball out flat.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

You might try using the leather sheet weights glued to the bottom of piney wood derby cars if you want something easy to make that holds the flint. It might be easier than hammering a ball out flat.

I was in a DIY mode when I was shooting the flintlock alot.
My rifle is a .45cal Kentucky Longrifle made in spain, it has a small lock and uses 1/2" pistol flints.
It was easier to flatten a round ball than go find the sheet weights.
1 .45 cal ball makes 2-3 lead strips.

 

[sundance44s]

I`ve always used lead to hold my flints , just my opinion but it seems with my flint wrapped in lead the hammer doesn`t bounce with the strike and I don`t have to knapp my flint as often , sometimes never . I also use only English black flints , and have fewer problems. But I know others that do well with other type flints too . alot depends on the lock ....but ain`t it fun figureing it all out ! .... well the truth is it can be mighty frustrateing figureing it all out...and when ya get it right life is grand.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

....but ain`t it fun figureing it all out ! .... well the truth is it can be mighty frustrateing figureing it all out...and when ya get it right life is grand.

Yup, half the fun of having a flint lock is tinkering with it.
First time I broke a main spring, I was a little frusterated that the part wasn't a drop-in replacement.
I learned the joy of making a part fit MY rifle with a file and a lot of patience.

My rifle is currently in pieces and I haven't fired it in a few years.
This thread is making me miss the smell of sulfer and clouds of smoke.
I'm going to have to put the ole smoke pole back together and hit the range.

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Little hint, you want the flint to strike the frizzen approximately 2/3-3/4 up from the pan for best results. Some flints you will have to put in upside down others you may have to shim with a piece of lead/leather. Make sure the flint is aligned straight across the frizzen face. I've used a piece of buckskin to hold the flint in place for something like 30 yrs without any problems and with several different flinters. I think the trick is to not have a bunch of excess leather around the flint to catch the powder embers. Best flints I've ever used are the English.

 

[buspete]

Archaeology turns up flints wrapped in lead and flints wrapped in leather, so both were used "in the period".

Research I have done into ammo supply always seems to turn up the same proportions of lead, powder and flints. It seems that you were expected to get 6 shots out of a flint, then throw it out.

We knap (resharpen by flaking the edge) flints today because we have the time and our lives don't depend on it, but in the armies of the 18th century, failure to fire could lead to failure to breathe. Flints from archaeolgical digs always seem to be in pretty good shape compared to the worn-down-reknapped pepples that I throw out.

 

[kartoffel]

+1 on the English flints.
The absolute WORST flints are those awful saw-cut abominations. Once they go dull they're nearly impossible to knap, and I'm pretty sure most of y'all don't carry water-cooled diamond grit stone saws in your possibles

So, if you're way out in the woods and find yourself plumb out of flints, look for arrowheads. Creek banks and plowed fields are full of flint if you just keep an eye out. You might not bear to knap a real pretty one into shape for your gun, but chance are you'll come across a broken one. Stick it in your gun--it'll make sparks!

 

[patentmike]

I've been wondering this myself. I built a fusil from Track and have been getting about 8 reliable shots out of a flint, and then it becomes a matter of adjusting, knapping, and general fiddling around to get about a dozen more. I can see how the troops would tend to change them out after 6 or so. This is with the English flints wrapped in leather, so I will try lead and see if it works any better for me. Good thread. Thanks.

 

[BigG]

I have no way of knowing but having studied the economy all my life I would guess the frugal pioneers used leather much more than lead, after all you had to buy lead. Leather was free. Just catch the animal. Lead seems more a typical modern thing that people with lots of money project back whereas most of the settlers didn't have much and would not waste a bullet to make a flint pad.

Just my halfast guess.

 

[GunTech]

The absolute WORST flints are those awful saw-cut abominations. Once they go dull they're nearly impossible to knap, and I'm pretty sure most of y'all don't carry water-cooled diamond grit stone saws in your possibles

No lie. The first thing I did when i got my TC Pennsylvania Carbine was to chuck that awful sawn agate flint and put in a good English black. They last and you can resharpen, or even 'hammer' the flint in a pinch. They also throw a much better spark.

When I send my lock back to get the updated one, they send me another saw flint. Arg!

 

[sundance44s]

Any Flinter that hasn`t tried the flint wrapped with a flattened round ball , easy to finish shape with cheap scissors , give it a try ..of course some of it depends on the lock ..but since I switched to lead I rarely need to knapp my flints while shooting , helps a lot in club shoots where they count the fall of the hammer as a miss . The leather wrap acts like a cushion or a shock absorber compaired to the solid hit you`ll get with the lead wrap .

 

[patentmike]

What Sundance44s said. It works much better on my rifle. I never thought about it before, but the jaws that hold the flint are curved - just like a flattened ball.

 

[jrfoxx]

FWIW, I had remembered reading this thread previously and decided to try flattening out a ball to use in place of leather on my rifle, since even with the screw torqued down as much as possible (any more and I feared shattering the flint), it still tended to rotate pretty easily (although, I have never had the gun not fire, but...).I now FIRMLY endorse the lead instead of leather.It took like 2 minutes to make, and now with the screw tightened down (and with not nearly as much torque as with the leather) my flint doesnt move AT ALL when firing, or even when pushing on the side of it pretty good with my finger.I will DEFINTELY be sticking with this method from now on.Also, I am happy that this eliminates the (albeit very minimal) chance of the leather getting an ember that could acciently set the pan off when you don want it too.Thanks to the OP for bringing up the topic, and to all those who espoused the use of lead over leather.

 

[Z71]

A relatively new flintlocker myself, as I bought an el-cheapo replica of a British flintlock pistol a year or so back. Basicaly just to get a flintlock gun to educate myself about the flintlock system.

Not much stuff around for flintlocks where I live. Using Thompson Center flints(which come with leather pre-cut for the flint), I get maybe 10-15 good ignitions per side. The synthetic or whatever TC flints don't seem to re-sharpen very well.

I was dissapointed with the flint longevity in my repro pistol. Did some research on the subject, and found that 10-15 good sparks is about average for the run of the mill flintlock. Have read that a well tuned, quality lock with good hand knapped flints will spark quite a few times(20 or more!?) before the flint needs attention.

I was also told that Pyrodex or other BP subs. wouldn't work for a flintlock! Bad news for me, as I can no longer find real black powder around my area.

I tried Pyrodex P anyway(all I have is variations of Pyrodex), as charge and priming for my pirate pistol. Actually worked pretty well. Can't compare with real BP since I ain't got any, but seemed to work fine. No hangfires or misfires that I could directly link to the prime or charge powder. Not that I have not had misfires, but the ones I've had were(or seemed to me) to be from the flints being spent or the flash hole being plugged.

Thats pretty much the extent of my flintlock knowledge. Judging from my pirate pistol experiences, would like to get a quality rifle such as a Flintlock TC Hawkin to play with.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I like lead sheets to hold my flint, but then when I took the lock assembly class with Jim Chambers (Siler Locks), he told us that with casted locks (most parts are investment casted), the added weight of lead can cause the hammer to bend. Thus, modern it is better to use leather. Get some leather, wet it and wrap it around the flint. Rubber band and dry in oven (pilot light is enough). Put a couple of spares in your shooting bag and you're good to go.

 

[GunTech]

Z71,

The only way I found to sharpen sawn flints is with a belt sander. It's not worth the bother.

Interesting to hear that Pyrodex works in yout flinter, as I have been told it won't work. I use FFg in my rifle and FFFFg in the pan. I am told that many people use the same powder in pan and barrel, and get good results from FFFg as well. I guess there's no hard and fast rule, and you have to experiment to know for sure.

 

[1911 guy]

Use good flints and a good lock.

The advice to use black english flints is dead on. Use them exclusively and you'll be a happy camper. The timing of the lock is another gem to learn. The flint should strike the frizzen fairly high up. The real advantage is the flint becomes "self knapping" against the frizzen. I use a .36 flint for squirrels and only move the flint foreward every 20 shots or so. As long as it is adjusted properly and stays square to the frizzen, you're in good shape. My rifle is pretty particular about what I hold the flint with. Lead doesn't work for me, it loosens quickly. I use a piece of elk leather. Put it in three years ago and haven't looked back since. It came with lead in the jaw and wold loosen every few shots, no matter how tight I turned the screw.

As far as powder, I use FFFg in both my .36 and .50, 40gr and 70gr respectively. When shooting at the range or during dry weather, I use FFFFg in the pan, but usually FFFg when hunting because it doesn't attract quite so much moisture.

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Another little trick to prolong the usefulness of a flint is to store them in coal oil lacking that use kerosene, it keeps them from becoming brittle.

 

[rocklocker2]

ve a question on flints.i just converted my 54 renegade to flint.i am using a tc hacken lock.wht is proper flint size?