Florida gun law redefines self-defense

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We need this in Virginia.

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NRA set to promote shoot-first ‘Castle doctrine’ in other states
By Manuel Roig-Franzia
Updated: 12:07 a.m. ET April 26, 2005

MIAMI - It is either a Wild West revival, a return to the days of "shoot first and ask questions later," or a triumph for the "Castle Doctrine" — the notion that enemies invade personal space at their peril.

Such dueling rhetoric marked the debate over a measure that Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) could sign as early as Tuesday. The legislation passed so emphatically that National Rifle Association backers plan to take it to statehouses across the nation, including Virginia's, over the next year. The law will let Floridians "meet force with force," erasing the "duty to retreat" when they fear for their lives outside of their homes, in their cars or businesses, or on the street.

NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said in an interview that the Florida measure is the "first step of a multi-state strategy" that he hopes can capitalize on a political climate dominated by conservative opponents of gun control at the state and national levels.

NRA plans push across ‘flyover land’
"There's a big tailwind we have, moving from state legislature to state legislature," LaPierre said. "The South, the Midwest, everything they call 'flyover land' — if John Kerry held a shotgun in that state, we can pass this law in that state."

The Florida measure says any person "has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm."

Florida law already lets residents defend themselves against attackers if they can prove they could not have escaped. The new law would allow them to use deadly force even if they could have fled and says that prosecutors must automatically presume that would-be victims feared for their lives if attacked.

The overwhelming vote margins and bipartisan support for the Florida gun bill — it passed unanimously in the state Senate and was approved 94 to 20 in the state House, with nearly a dozen Democratic co-sponsors — have alarmed some national gun-control advocates, who say a measure that made headlines in Florida slipped beneath their radar.

" am in absolute shock," Sarah Brady, chair of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said in an interview. "If I had known about it, I would have been down there." (classic stupidity)

The lessons of history do not bode well for gun-control groups and their leaders, such as Brady, who became a crusader after President Ronald Reagan and her husband, then-White House press secretary James S. Brady, were seriously wounded in a 1981 assassination attempt.

Sunshine State a bellwether
Florida has a track record as a gun-law trendsetter. In the mid-1980s, the NRA chose Florida to launch a push for "conceal carry" or "right-to-carry" laws, which allow states to issue permits for residents to carry firearms. Democrat Bob Graham, who was then governor, vetoed the measure, but it was resurrected after he left office and was signed in 1987 by Gov. Bob Martinez, a Republican.

At the time, fewer than a dozen states had right-to-carry laws. Now there are 38.

LaPierre thinks the new Florida measure — nicknamed the "Castle Doctrine" by its conceiver, Florida lobbyist Marion P. Hammer, a former NRA president — can create the same momentum.

Critics argue that the measure is so broad it will encourage fights between neighbors, parents at soccer games or drinking buddies to escalate into gunfights. (The usual "blood in the streets" crap from the liberals :cuss: )

"It's almost like a duel clause," said state Rep. Dan Gelber, a Miami Beach Democrat and former federal prosecutor whose wife is a state prosecutor. "People ought to have to walk away if they can."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634381/
 
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uhh, Virginia is ahead of the curve

And already is a "stand your ground" state.

(Although I believe retreating is the better tactic in the grand scheme of things. I do like the public policy statement of the "stand your ground" rule, but would not always choose to take up the offer)
 
According to my newspaper, the Governor signed this into law yesterday. Sounds good to me. In my personal experience, the younger apprentice criminals are more daring than their predecessors. These idiots don't back off when they see a gun the way their criminal fathers did. They know you have to retreat if possible, and they percieve law abiding people as too weak willed to shoot. They use this like a ballistic vest.

Pa. has a retreat clause in it's Use of Force law. It is so specific and the retreat exception has enough exceptions to it, to provide a reasonable justification to shoot in almost any situation. I have a knee injury that makes it difficult for me to run or maneuver quickly. I have been told that, the injury alone is enough to satisfy the exceptions and allow me to shoot without retreat. Of course all the other conditions must still be met.

I'd still be much more comfortable if Pa adopted the same standard as Florida. It would save me some lawyer money in the event I need to defend myself.
 
What I'd like to see more than anything in all states is civil liability exemption for a justified self-defense incident. It is something that always weighs on a person's mind if they come to that moment where they must choose to take a life to defend their own.
 
I'd like to see that too. However, If I am confronted with a deadly force scenario, the last thing on my mind is civil liability. When you clutter your thinking with that, in the midst of a deadly force situation, you hesitate, and die.

You deal with civil liability in two ways;

1. TRAINING; Know the law, know your weapon, have a plan, rehearse the plan in your mind, rehearse the plan, SAFELY, in your environment. Knowing the law well, prevents many mistakes that will get you in trouble. Having a good plan allows you to testify that you were not acting rashly or carelessly. Rehearsing the plan will make it happen in a crisis. Rehearsal will keep you working within the law. The plan should include what to say and not to say to the police and when to call your lawyer (right after you shoot).

2. LIABILITY INSURANCE; In case you make a mistake. Even if you aren't liable, the insurance will pay to defend you. Don't asume your homeowners liability will cover you. See it in writing.
 
From the Pensacola News Journal.....

Deadly force bill OK’d
Gov. Bush signs law protecting acts of self-defense
April 27, 2005
From staff and wire reports

TALLAHASSEE -- With a National Rifle Association lobbyist at his side, Gov. Jeb Bush signed a bill Tuesday that would allow people to defend themselves on the street, meeting "force with force" without fear of being prosecuted.

The bill was sponsored in the Senate by Sen. Durell Peaden, R-Crestview, who also was at Bush's side as he signed the bill.

"It shouldn't be a crime to protect yourself or your loved ones upon being attacked," Peaden said. "This common-sense legislation aims to allow citizens across the state to better protect, if necessary, their homes, vehicles, themselves and, most importantly, their families."

The measure, which passed the Legislature overwhelmingly earlier this year, says people who are attacked don't have to retreat before responding, as long as they're in a place they legally have a right to be.

The bill says the person has "the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so, to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another."

People already have that right in their homes. The bill, which takes effect Oct. 1, extends the right to public spaces, including on the street or in a place of business.

Case law and statutes dealing with the issue vary by state, but supporters said the measure brings Florida in line with a number of other states.

"It's common sense to allow people to defend themselves," Bush said. "When you're in a position where you're being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense."

The measure was the NRA's top priority, said the group's lobbyist, Marion Hammer, who was at the bill signing.

"Now, the law and their government is on the side of law-abiding people and victims, rather than on the side of criminals," Hammer said.

Peaden introduced the bill after a 77-year-old Escambia County resident, James Workman, killed an intruder in his southwest Escambia County home on Nov. 3. No charges were filed against Workman.

The retiree struggled with Rodney Dean Cox, fatally shooting the 35-year-old North Carolina man who entered the trailer where Workman and his wife were living.

Peaden said the current law left Workman in a "precarious situation" until he was exonerated.

"Several cases were brought to my attention involving people around the state whose homes had been violated by intruders," Peaden said. "The victims later discovered that had they used force and killed the intruder, there was nothing in Florida's law to protect them from being held liable for the death of the intruder. This legislation remedies a significant flaw in the current system."

Supporters of the bill had touted it as a way not only to protect the rights of those who are assaulted, but also as a measure meant to deter crime.

"If law-abiding citizens are able to protect themselves and have government stand behind them, you will have less violent crime," said Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, the sponsor of the bill in the House.

Pace gun owner Brian Sanders, who served with the U.S. Army in Iraq, also supports the new law.

"The bill addresses our basic human instinct to defend ourselves and families in our homes or wherever we may be," Sanders said. "This will be a deterrent in itself by sending a message to the criminal element that we will defend ourselves and our property."

Opponents of the bill warned during debate on the issue that it will lead to a "Wild West" atmosphere in Florida, where gun-toting people in public places will have shoot-outs because they can. No one will ever back down, opponents argued.

"You are telling people when they are in the midst of an emotional moment ... you can stand your ground until death happens," Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, said during House debate on the bill earlier this month.

But Baxley said the measure wouldn't result in free-for-all gun battles, in part because of laws already on the books -- or rules by property owners -- that prevent people from carrying guns in many instances, such as in a stadium.

In another example, opponents had raised the prospect of fistfights in bars erupting into shootouts.

"You can't bring a weapon in a bar," Baxley countered on Tuesday. "If you bring a firearm in a bar, you're already committing a felony."

The Associated Press and News Journal staff writer Troy Moon contributed to this report.
©The Pensacola News Journal
April 27, 2005
 
I saw the newscast I think on ABC last night. It was pretty fair. But they had some guy saying this EXACT same thing:

Opponents of the bill warned during debate on the issue that it will lead to a "Wild West" atmosphere in Florida, where gun-toting people in public places will have shoot-outs because they can. No one will ever back down, opponents argued.
Yup, same OLD arguments. I thought the wild west shootouts would happen every single time a state passed CCW.
 
The antis are attacking this law pretty heatedly. This story is getting play in all the morning news and European news as well.

Apparently, someone at the Brady Campaign reached the genius conclusion that because Florida was a leader in the shall-issue CHL process, they must stop this law here in order to prevent it from spreading to other states.

Of course, only about 12 states had shall-issue concealed carry when Florida passed its bill. However, a lot more states are "stand your ground" states to one degree or another - so Florida is actually playing a bit of catch-up in this case.
 
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