Florida Purchase Paperwork Hijinks

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Packman

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
829
Location
Southwest Florida
So, after having wanted one for a good long while, I finally went down to the local shop this afternoon to buy an XD .45 Compact.

What a nightmare.

When I walked into the shop, it was pandelirium! People everywhere, employees running all over the store, just a total mess. Took me over an hour to get hold of the salesdude, and then only because he was helping someone else and was just standing there while they looked at something, so I said "can I see this one, while you're here?"

Anyway, I digress from the point. I have a Florida concealed weapons license. However, he still called in the FDLE background check. I was under the impression that this was not required if I already had a permit. Am I wrong?

Also, I had a total mess with my ID. My address of record is Sarasota, which is where my parents live, and where ALL of my important documents go, and where all my ID's say I live. I'm in Daytona for school though, which is where I bought the gun. I've bought 3 guns since I've been here, and never had a problem. This guy made some comment offhand about "Oh, drove all the way over from Sarasota, huh?" Me, not thinking anything of it, said "Nah, I'm over here for school." Oh boy. He then informs me that he can't sell me the gun, because my address on my ID is in Sarasota. (Bear in mind, I've already bought from this shop once before.) So, I argue back and forth with him, he says it's a ATF requirement that since I "sleep over here," I need a local address. So we go back and forth of what would constistute valid ID with this address, and finally settle on a Fishing License.

So, I zip over to Walmart, pay 2.50 for a Saltwater Shoreline replacement license with my local address on it, go back to the gunstore and buy the gun. No problem after that.



So what's the story here? I was under the impression that you can buy a gun anywhere in Florida, so long as you're a resident. Was he just being jumpy after I mentioned that I was just here for school, or is there actually an issue over me technically residing in two places?

I hate gun stores.
 
On a side note, using a Fishing License for ID is a joke. I went to Wal-Mart, asked the lady for a Shoreline license (Free to FL residents) and asked if I could put a different address on it from the one that I had on my Driver's License. She goes "Sure, what address did you want to use?"

And the gunshop guy accepted that as a valid form of ID. You've got to be kidding me.
 
Wacky story. All I know for sure is my permit means no phone calls here in TX.
 
Your gunstore dude was wacky, you don't need a local address, just proof you're a Florida resident. Also, the CCW waives the Florida records check, but not the national criminal records check, so they've still got to call it in. It waives any waiting period, though.
 
ND your permit waives any background check, it's already performed. Permit has to be renewed every 2 years.
 
I don't think I've ever need a Florida-specific records check. And, IIRC, any FL ID should work. Some counties may require you to be a resident of that county, but I'm not sure of that.

They do still have to make the NICS check. The CCL doesn't override that. The local shop owner said it's just to prove that the CCL is still valid, since anything that would invalidate it will show up.

No waiting period, though!
 
Packman On a side note, using a Fishing License for ID is a joke...
...And the gunshop guy accepted that as a valid form of ID...
Click to expand...
ATF requires a government issued photo ID (question 20a. on the Form 4473)
So your fishing license does not qualify as ID.

Question 20b. on the Form 4473 provides for "Alternate Documentation" (if drivers license or other identification document does not show current residence address) Your FL fishing licence is that "alternate documentation".

Sounds to me like the gun store clerk nailed it. (exactly like the Form 4473 requires)



.
 
Most of my guns have been bought while away from my home address in VA without any problems and my hometown is 5 hours away from school.
 
It all depends on what you claim as your residence address. The address that you fill in blocks 2 of the form 4473 has to match an address on one of the identification documents listed in blocks 20a or 20b of the form 4473.

I have discovered that talking to an FFL is somewhat like talking to the police. Keep your mouth shut, don't offer any unnecessary information, make sure you have a government document that shows your current address that you are going to use as your residence address on the form 4473.
 
If you move your residence you must report to Division of Agriculture (which issues the FL CCW) within 30 days IIRC. When you offered your CCW to buy the gun and then told him you were essentially living at school and not at the address on your CCW then maybe that's why you had problems.
 
FL state requires the FDLE instant background check for everybody. CC permit holders, even LE.. the NICS check is not done here. The dealer must call the FDLE phone service call-in. The FDLE gets $5 per call.. basically its revenue
 
I have a Florida concealed weapons license. However, he still called in the FDLE background check. I was under the impression that this was not required if I already had a permit. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Think about it though. Your CCW permit in FL is valid for 5 years. A lot can happen in that amount of time. Just because you have a physical card in hand doesn't necessarily mean anything. Someone could have been convicted of a crime and been released from prison in that span.

They call it in to make sure that its valid, and you're good to go. And it does get you out of a waiting period.
 
First, The FDLE (NICS) check is required on all purchases for everyone from an FFL. All the CWFL does for you is let you bypass the state, and any optional county, waiting period.

Second, the clerk was FOS about the address requirement. Should have talked to his boss.

Third, the Florida CWFL is good for seven years, not five.
 
'took you over an hour to get a sales dude'? and I thought the guy waiting 30 minutes to get someone to sell him ammo at Walmart was nuts....

I would have walked out after 5 minutes at the most...

I bought a rifle just before thanksgiving at a local gun shop and it was close to pandemonium in there too... I walked in... stopped a sales person within 3 minutes and said.... I want that rifle... walked out with it less than 10 minutes later.
 
I'm a CCP holder here in Florida and they always call me in when I buy a new gun. No wait though -that part is correct.

As far as crowded gun shops go -my local shop has to be up there with the busiest of shops. They have very good prices because of the volume they move. So getting helped at peak times can be a pita. I try and go either right after opening or late about an hour before closing and the crowds are much smaller, but if you go on a Saturday afternoon or lunch time during the week it will be packed with a bunch of goobers who all want to hold the desert eagles.

Put it this way, last saturday I went in to buy a gun around 1:00 pm because I had stuff to do in the morning. Just the FDLE call in wait was 5 people deep. They literally had 5 paperwork stacks lined up waiting to be called in that's not mentioning the droves of people browsing. It took about an hour and a half to complete the purchase.
 
ATF requires a government issued photo ID (question 20a. on the Form 4473)
So your fishing license does not qualify as ID.

Question 20b. on the Form 4473 provides for "Alternate Documentation" (if drivers license or other identification document does not show current residence address) Your FL fishing licence is that "alternate documentation".

Sounds to me like the gun store clerk nailed it. (exactly like the Form 4473 requires)
Click to expand...

Well, I guess that makes a little bit more sense. Still frustrating though.

I didn't realize they still had to call in with a CWP. Oh well, at least I can take it home the same day, since most everyone else in the store had to wait a week for their guns. :D (New Years + store closed a couple of days)

I thought about walking out, but I'd been wanting the gun for a long time, and Springfield Armory has a rebate for 3 free mags and a free mag carrier, but it ends the 31st, so I wanted to do it before that was over. As it was, I got the last one in the store.

I work retail too, and sometimes my store looks just as bad. It's not all that unusual for there to be an hour wait to talk to a salesman in my store, so I'll be patient. If I see you're working, I'm not going to be a jerk. If you're slacking off, I'm not a happy camper.
 
Maybe the FL CCW permit process doesn't do a through enough background check? In MI, as of Mar 24 2006, our CPL (concealed pistol license) waives the NICS check. That hasn't stopped one Gander Mountain rep running it anyways, but most guys are aware of this.

Or, you need to get your state Attorney General to get the ATF to approve the FL license as a substitute for the NICS check.

What happens if you commit a felony as a CPL holder? They take the license!
 
brboyer said:
Second, the clerk was FOS about the address requirement. Should have talked to his boss.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the ATF feels differently. See the instructions to blocks 20a and 20b on the form 4473.

4473inst.jpg
 
BlueEyes said:
Maybe the FL CCW permit process doesn't do a through enough background check? In MI, as of Mar 24 2006, our CPL (concealed pistol license) waives the NICS check. That hasn't stopped one Gander Mountain rep running it anyways, but most guys are aware of this.

Or, you need to get your state Attorney General to get the ATF to approve the FL license as a substitute for the NICS check.

What happens if you commit a felony as a CPL holder? They take the license!
Click to expand...
Having the license in hand does not mean that it is valid, doesn't mean there is not a warrant for your arrest, does not mean (... a lot of other things). The 1-minute phonecall to verify is all they do. It (a) streamlines the sales process by making it the same for all buyers [paperwork and other wise, which makes it easier for the shops to stay on the good side and have all their paperwork in order] (b) makes sure that in the time since you've had your license [since it's good for 7 years] that you're still OK.
 
It's a five buck charge plus 6% Florida sales tax. The phone call is usualy the longest part of the process.
 
dayid said:
Having the license in hand does not mean that it is valid, doesn't mean there is not a warrant for your arrest, does not mean (... a lot of other things). The 1-minute phonecall to verify is all they do. It (a) streamlines the sales process by making it the same for all buyers [paperwork and other wise, which makes it easier for the shops to stay on the good side and have all their paperwork in order] (b) makes sure that in the time since you've had your license [since it's good for 7 years] that you're still OK.
Click to expand...

The phone call to FDLE is to perform the required 'Brady' background check, it has nothing, at all, to do with one's CWFL.
 
NavyLT said:
Unfortunately, the ATF feels differently. See the instructions to blocks 20a and 20b on the form 4473.
Click to expand...

My statement was addressing his in-state addresses, it makes no difference where you currently live in the state.

Like you said in your earlier post, it's best not to give a gun shop clerk extraneous information, it tends to confuse them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top