Flying with a firearm?
- Thread starter EBK
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Shawn Dodson
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"No TSA padlocks" is incorrect and obsolete. It originated with an erroneous statement on the TSA website (which was deleted a couple years ago). See updated TSA instructions - http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/firearms-and-ammunition
Here's WHY I used TSA padlocks:
"TSA must resolve all alarms in checked baggage. If a locked container containing a firearm alarms, TSA will contact the airline, who will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner and advise the passenger to go to the screening location. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft."
I'd rather give TSA the ability to inspect my bag and contents than to show up at my destination only to find out that my guns were intentionally left behind at the originating airport because of a SNAFU. (And, yes, there have been several times when my bag has been re-opened and re-inspected by TSA after it was inspected and accepted at the TSA inspection station. Sometimes they put a tag inside my bag informing me of what they did, sometimes they don't (and this I know only because I use TSA padlocks with an indicator that tells me when TSA unlocked it with a TSA key)).
If a thief wants your pistol it's not going to matter what kind of padlock you have on your pistol case. He/she is just going to take the whole pistol case rather than waste time fumbling with a large ring of keys trying to find which key(s) fits the padlock(s). (When I present my bag for inspection at the TSA inspection point, I watch with amusement as TSA agents fumble around with all those keys to find the exact ones to open my TSA padlocks.)
I use TSA padlocks inside and out and I've never had a problem. I travel about a dozen times a year with my pistols.
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Shawn Dodson
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Individual airline policy may prohibit this practice, as well as having both gun and ammo together in the same bag. So be careful what you declare/disclose at check-in.
Check the airline's policy beforehand.
I'm sitting in the DFW airport after having a lengthy discussion with the TSA agent. The airline (US Airways) insists that I put the declaration tag inside the gun case, knowing full well that the TSA is going to have me remove it and put it on the outside. I cannot stress how important it is to keep the regs on hand while traveling.
The TSA has a rule book but I don't really believe anyone who works for them has actually read it. Individual TSA agents commonly make up their own rules as they go. And get away with it. Over and over. I stopped flying commercial ten years ago. Never again. I'd rather drive.
Just to be clear: if it's a lone case, the tag goes inside. If it's a pistol case inside a bigger checked bag, then the tag goes inside the bigger bag but outside the pistol case. I usually tape it to the pistol case so the tag won't get lost among the junk in the bigger bag.
Correct.
W.E.G.
Member
Deviant Ollam's most excellent lecture on flying with firearms:
http://vimeo.com/3923535
http://vimeo.com/3923535
leadcounsel
member
Get a non-resident permit from Utah (Florida's used to be recognized), or other states. Get several to maximize your ability to carry...
Thats the plan. I will be applying for a non resident permit from washington state while I am there. It does me no good this trip as I will only be there a week so it probably wont even be aproved until well after I am back home however next time I go it will be okay for me to carry.
NavyLCDR
member
Ammo separate and no loaded mags is completely optional. No loaded mags is a good idea, but an optional one because on most airlines and by Federal regulations it is perfectly legal/acceptable to have the magazines loaded if the are in pouches that cover the exposed ammunition.
There are only one or two airlines that require the ammo be outside the gun case (inside the same suitcase is OK with those airlines).
NavyLCDR
member
It all depends on how you interpret the CURRENT and VALID Federal regulation contained in the Code of Federal Regulations that states that only the owner of the firearm shall retain the key or combination to the lock on the gun case.
Besides, do I really want to enable TSA to open the gun case and handle/inspect my gun without me being present there when I am not required to by law? Not me.
NavyLCDR
member
1. There is no requirement for the air carrier to inspect the gun. That is exactly what the signed declaration tag is for. Maybe they didn't open your gun case and look at the gun because they did not want to do anything that was not required. I applaud them for that, not belittle them.
2. If TSA has a question about whether the gun is unloaded or not when viewing on xray, they will attempt to contact you to open the case and verify the gun is unloaded. That is the exact reason to use a chamber flag. If they can't contact you to open the gun case, they are "supposed" to deny carriage of the gun on the plane and turn it over to local police - in the locked gun case.
3. If TSA wants to verify the tag showing on xray is a signed firearms declaration, they will inspect it. If the tag is properly located OUTSIDE the gun case, but inside the suitcase containing the gun case, then they can do so without notifying the passenger. That is the reason the declaration tag goes OUTSIDE the gun case, but inside the suitcase. If the gun case is going by itself, not inside a suitcase, THEN the declaration tag goes inside the gun case.
lloveless
Member
Very interesting. I have always been told to put the firearm unloaded tag inside the gun case, which is inside my suitcase. I also carry a small tackle box that has my ammo, knives and holsters. It is also locked with a non-TSA lock. No one has had me open the tackle box, but multiple times I have had the TSA request that I open the gun case. On one occasion the lock on the gun case had been cut off. The laws are confusing to all. I concur with flying with copies of relevant laws. It will at least show your attempt to comply with the complexities, and be conversant in those laws.
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Mainsail
Member
I'm leaving out of SeaTac this morning with my XDs in my checked baggage. I used a combo-locked container cabled to the support bar inside a soft-side bag.
Very low drama. Took the bag to the check-in and told the clerk I was declaring a firearm. She asked if it was unloaded and I said yes. She had me sign a red tag and put it on top of the lock box inside the bag. She then sent me down to the far side of the terminal to the oversize bag window.
When I got there the TSA guy asked if I had a firearm, I said yes. He took the bag and opened it and checked the outside of the lock-box for explosive residue. Then he did the same with the inside of the baggage. He offered to lock the zippers together with a zip-tie and I told him I would appreciate it.
Nobody asked me to open the lock-box to prove it was unloaded. The gun is assembled inside the lock-box with one of those orange empty chamber inserts in the action.
I'll post again when I get to Salt Lake.
Very low drama. Took the bag to the check-in and told the clerk I was declaring a firearm. She asked if it was unloaded and I said yes. She had me sign a red tag and put it on top of the lock box inside the bag. She then sent me down to the far side of the terminal to the oversize bag window.
When I got there the TSA guy asked if I had a firearm, I said yes. He took the bag and opened it and checked the outside of the lock-box for explosive residue. Then he did the same with the inside of the baggage. He offered to lock the zippers together with a zip-tie and I told him I would appreciate it.
Nobody asked me to open the lock-box to prove it was unloaded. The gun is assembled inside the lock-box with one of those orange empty chamber inserts in the action.
I'll post again when I get to Salt Lake.
Mainsail
Member
Arrived in Salt Lake and my bag arrived just fine. Used a pair of scissors from the rental car place to cut the zip tie off. So the long and short of it is that flying with a firearm isn't too terribly tough.
Shawn Dodson
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NavyLCDR writes:
In early 2011 TSA e-mailed the following response to me in regard to my query about the use of TSA locks on my gun cases:
In early 2011 TSA e-mailed the following response to me in regard to my query about the use of TSA locks on my gun cases:
Thank you for your e-mail regarding travel with firearms using Transportation Security Administration (TSA) - recognized locks.
On flights that originate in the United States, passengers may transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:
• the firearm must be unloaded; • it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage; • it must be in a locked, hard-sided container; and • it must be declared to the airline.
Travelers may use any kind or type of lock for securing firearm cases, including TSA - recognized locks. However, TSA does not recommend or endorse any specific brand or type of lock to use on firearm containers.
We encourage all travelers to familiarize themselves with TSA Travel Tips prior to their trip. Our Web site, www.tsa.gov, has information about prohibited and permitted items, the screening process and procedures, and guidance for special considerations that may assist with preparing for air travel.. Passengers can go directly to these tips at www.TSATravelTips.us.
We hope this information is helpful.
TSA Contact Center
On flights that originate in the United States, passengers may transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:
• the firearm must be unloaded; • it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage; • it must be in a locked, hard-sided container; and • it must be declared to the airline.
Travelers may use any kind or type of lock for securing firearm cases, including TSA - recognized locks. However, TSA does not recommend or endorse any specific brand or type of lock to use on firearm containers.
We encourage all travelers to familiarize themselves with TSA Travel Tips prior to their trip. Our Web site, www.tsa.gov, has information about prohibited and permitted items, the screening process and procedures, and guidance for special considerations that may assist with preparing for air travel.. Passengers can go directly to these tips at www.TSATravelTips.us.
We hope this information is helpful.
TSA Contact Center
NavyLCDR
member
Then the question becomes, why in the world would I choose to use a lock that thousands of government employees can have the key to when it is not required? To me that would be like getting stopped for speeding and immediately popping the trunk open for the officer to search inside.
bigfatdave
Member
Me experiences have matched Mainsail's
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NavyLCDR makes a very good point. Just because you (in theory) could use a TSA lock on the gun case doesn't mean that there is any good reason to do so. The little 3-4 tumbler combo locks are more secure, cost about the same, and fit most gun cases. I used some smallish name-brand non-TSA padlocks on my gun case, and TSA locks on the outer luggage with Zip-Ties as tamper seals.
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I assume that by now EBK has made his trip, maybe this thread could be trimmed down into a useful sticky? Or just a link to Ollam's site?
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/
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NavyLCDR makes a very good point. Just because you (in theory) could use a TSA lock on the gun case doesn't mean that there is any good reason to do so. The little 3-4 tumbler combo locks are more secure, cost about the same, and fit most gun cases. I used some smallish name-brand non-TSA padlocks on my gun case, and TSA locks on the outer luggage with Zip-Ties as tamper seals.
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I assume that by now EBK has made his trip, maybe this thread could be trimmed down into a useful sticky? Or just a link to Ollam's site?
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/
Indeed. I made it back home safe and sound today firearm intact with no hassle. Used a Stack on Portable Security case. It comes with a cable that I used to anchor it to my luggage. I put my Taurus PT111 in it along with two 20 round boxes of JHP, one 17 round mag and one 12 round mag in the gun along with an empty chamber flag, all magazines were also empty of course.
The Baggage was also locked with the crappy lock that comes with it and a master lock through the zipper tabs.
This is the case I used however I got it from a local gun shop for 27 bucks
http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys/Stack-On-Key-Lock-Portable-Security-Case/6055870/product.html
NavyLCDR
member
But the TSA says that TSA locks are OK on the gun case....
and the police officer says, "It's OK if I look around, you have nothing to hide, right?"
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