FN FAL questions

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Silverlance, I never said that Entreprise guns were worthless. You, however, keep trying to suggest that listings of DSA guns for sale are an indication that the owners of those guns weren't happy with them. That's ridiculous, and I've pointed out why. You can speculate all you want about why some owners may decide to sell them, but isn't it curious that for all your talk about how unhappy DSA owners must be, you can't seem to find any of them? The 'net gun boards are full of posts from people raving about how much they love their DSA's, and at the same time they are chock full of reports of problems with Entreprise guns that don't work, complaints about poor Entreprise quality control and customer service, etc. Just take a look at falfiles.com and you'll see that the overwhelming weight of opinion is that if you buy an Entreprise, you run a much higher risk of having serious problems with your FAL.

The same is often said of Century-built CETME rifles, and for the same reasons. And my opinion of both companies' products is the same -- they can be excellent values IF you do your homework, inspect carefully, and generally buy only rifles that someone else has already done the hard work of sorting out. There are perfectly fine Entreprise FAL's and Century CETME's out there, but if I'm putting my money down, I prefer the better odds that come with buying from a manufacturer that has a well-earned reputation for quality.

Incidentally, I have to wonder whether you really want to advertise that an Entreprise FAL sold recently for $800 when that price included nearly $400 worth of ammo and mags. That would suggest that the rifle was only worth around $400. I'm sure whoever put that package together had a lot more than $800 invested in it.
 
yup, i agree with you. the 800$ deal was a bomb. I wouldn't say that 600 rounds of 308 and 11 mags = 400$, but I certainly felt the package was worth a heck of a lot more than what it went for.

that's especially true since the other rifle i bought for 705$ was just the rifle and one magazine.

i don't say that DSA owners are unhappy. quite the contrary. i repeat several times that DSA makes great fals. whether entreprise, century, dsa, or fulton, owners of 308 rifles in general are pretty bummed out by the price of shooting these days. that is why so many are being sold, with little use.

i'm simply saying that DSA's are overpriced, and inefficient at recouping the inital investment when they are sold.

i agree with buying quality, too. that's why all my defensive handguns are sigs. but is a DSA rifle worth twice an entreprise rifle? that's the question a guy really needs to ask himself.

i would say that if you reload, if you shoot frequently, and you shoot for groups, then get a DSA. but if you just want a service-grade military rifle, then the entreprise is probably a much better deal.

kev

kev
 
I wouldn't say that 600 rounds of 308 and 11 mags = 400$

I would...guess you haven't priced out surplus .308 in a while?

He advertises 400 rounds of UK! UK= Radway Green...hasn't been any of that in country in a long time, can't even put a price on it because it is pretty rare right now...and 200 rounds of SA...Battle packs (200 rounds) are going for over a $100 lately IF you can find them. The 11 mags...standard used mags figure $5 or so apiece, thats right around $400.

Pretty standard price for that type of FAL, I have seen several deals on similar ones like it in the $400-$500 range.
 
I own two DSA's, and they are great rifles. One is an SA58; I've got about $1700 in it as it sits. If I sold it, I wouldn't let it go for under $1100.

I also have an STG58C from DSA, that with some additional parts installed brings my total in the rifle to about $1200. I would expect it to fetch nearly that amount if I sold it today.

The SA58s, *at this moment*, will be worth a little less on the used market than what was payed for them new. Then again, there is no other source for a 100% domestically built, factory warrantied, top notch quality FAL... none.

The STG58's will retain their value a little better, again, right at this moment. In the event of another ban, I expect you'd instantly be able to make a healthy profit on both. They are the rifles that would be most sought after in that scenario, I imagine.

Then again, I don't intend to sell mine. They are both keepers.
 
I don't know anything about these FNFALs. I am enjoying this spirited discussion. So just a curiosity question-
What kind of accuracy at 100 yards do you get from the DSA and Enterprise rifles?
 
My standard SA58 has repeatably shot right around 3" with hunting ammo, iron sights, and a field rest. I would like to get it on a good rest and try it out with some optics sometime. I imagine it could do better than 3" under more optimal conditions.

FALs are not tack drivers as a rule though. An MOA FAL seems to be a rare beast. They are definitely battle rifles in that sense.
 
I wouldn't touch Entreprise with a 10-foot pole, so knock yourself out and buy 'em all up :barf:

I'm perfectly happy with my DSA-receivered self-built FAL, thanks.
 
Here's a report from one of the guys over at falfiles.com who just received, from left to right in the pic below, two Entreprise receivers and one DSA:

receiverske1.jpg


Here in his own words:

Originally posted by thedrickel
If you Andy's think that was interesting, check this out:

4m7ahs4.jpg

Just a little gunk in there right?

NOPE!

4q8ymf7.jpg

I scraped that stuff with a screwdriver, and punctured the receiver! There is now a ~1mm hole there, and I'm sure I could open it up more if I wanted. Other receiver has a similar but smaller defect in the pivot pin recess, so suffice it to say they are both on their way back to Entreprise right now. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes!

Oh, wait - perhaps I'd better remove the above for fear Entreprise will threaten to sue me as well :rolleyes: :barf:
 
They still can't seem to get them together right?

I remember back in '03 I had to send one back due to a bad ejector block....I admit the 2nd one they sent was OK, but still.:barf:

I have built 7 over the years, assisted on about a 1/2 dozen more, and built on 3 Enterprise receivers, they were the worst and "hardest" builds, they did work and work well in the end but it took some doing...and like I said one had to go back.

I love my FAL's, still have 2 (imbel on an imbel and G-1 on a DCI) and one bun in the oven :D still sitting on a beautiful Imbel kit and saving up funds for a DSA receiver
 
I am in the process (wife just gave me the ok to finish my build) of building my FAL from a parts kit. I have a DSA Type 1 receiver that in my own opinion is far better than anything else on the market. I did the research and was leaning towards an Enterprise reciever, but after reading a ton of reviews went with the DSA. True it is $$$$, but when I snug my face up there and start taking on those killer ninja watermelons I want to know that I will come home just as pretty, or ugly, as when I left. All my US parts are DSA and again the parts are great.
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/
under notes you will find his review of many different receivers
Just my $.02
 
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10X - we don't like to talk about accuracy...we like to talk about reliability.

I haven't put my Para on paper yet, but I was dialing in my Trijicon Reflex (fancy red dot scope) at the range (shooting into the berm).

A group (2 bushmasters and an AK) were trying to break clay pidgens (laying on the berm at 100 yards). Now I give them credit, because they were standing on their hind legs and shooting iron sights off hand at 100 yards...but after at least 60-80 rounds without a single hit, I asked if I could try.

Before my 20 round mag was empty, all 8 of their pidgens were MIA.

So what kind of accuracy do we get...good enough for their purpose...I may never print a group on paper with that rifle. - Josh M.
 
These are the targets from my SA58 standard, 21" barrel. All groups were shot under the same conditions:

Hooded rear sight from DSA. Standard front sight.
100yd
forearm rested on a cardboard box.

aussie_surplus.jpg

win_superx.jpg

SA58_1.jpg

As I mentioned before, consistently, it is realistically about 3" under those conditions.
 
Hey, can some of you FNFAL aficionados come check out the FN Forum when ya got the chance. We are trying to build up that section of our site, and could use your expertise.

Thanks!
 
Hey, can some of you FNFAL aficionados come check out the FN Forum when ya got the chance. We are trying to build up that section of our site, and could use your expertise.

I'll try to stop by now and then.

May I suggest that you change the colors so that the posts do not appear as light grey letters on a (somewhat darker) grey background? I couldn't possibly stand to look at that for long.
 
About 5 years ago a friend of mine and I where at the range. He have just purchased a Franken FAL. He had had to replace about 3 or 4 parts before he got it to function properly. I liked the way it handled and where the controls were. But I don't see sending $495 on a "new" gun and then having to put another $200 into it on parts.

I started looking into FAL's and found DS Arms. DSA seem to have a good weapon. So, I ordered a StG 58. At the time it ran about $825. I haven't had a problem with it. I'm going to buy a SA 58 standard in the near futher.
 
The SA58 line is all new manufacture parts by DSA, and is more expensive.

The STG58 line is professionally built by DSA gunsmiths with top notch milsurp (Austrian or Belgian) on a DSA receiver, and is less expensive.

There is about a $500 difference in price. Just so everyone is aware.

The STG58's still come with the DSA receiver that is marked "SA58" though, so the buyer has to do a little homework and know what he's looking at in order to not get taken. If you end up paying $1500+ for an STG58, you have indeed been taken, as far as current market prices go.

Also, other rifles built on a different receiver with the same type parts can still be referred to as "STG58", and cost/be worth less than the DSA built version.

Anything bought for $825 that was built at the DSA factory is a pretty damn good deal though.
 
The "new" FAL that my friend bought was a Franken FAL, and I don't remember the company who built it. He replaced the gas system and the sights as I recall. So, he had $495 in the gun and another $200 in parts to get it to work.

My DSA StG-58 is an Austrian kit on a DSA type II receiver. I had one of the local dealer order it for my. I paid about $825 for it 5 years ago. The SA-58 I know that I'm going to paid between $1500 and $1700 for it.
 
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