FN Scar 17...

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And I think an AR would likely malfunction as well if you shot it with the ejection port side against the ground or something.

Maybe if you literally laid it against the ground it would; but from any practical position, the AR will function just fine like that. I've been low enough to the ground that a curb would have blocked my line of fire and had no trouble firing the weapon ejection port down.

A reciprocating charging handle is a compromise like everything else - you trade one set of problems for a different set.
 
"those rifles are produced for alot cheaper, and SCARs are luxury rifles for even our military, since so few units have them, and most are issued to SOCOM. "

I love this statement and find it to be a bit of a flashback. I could reword it just a little and I think you might get my meaning.

"those rifles are produced for alot cheaper, and Garands are luxury rifles for even our military, since so few units have them, and most are issued to REMF Army."

I really dont think you are that uninformed about our military and it's machinations. I am a big fan of our armed forces, and part of that is the amount of money they spend and industry they spur. If the mil wants a $2000 rifle in the order of 1 million units ($2 billion) over how many years, lets' say I think they will work that money out. I do believe that is less then 1 stealth fighter jet.

The SCAR17 could be and will be considered for the next US Battle Rifle. It is a very high quality contender. Consider me a fan.
 
It is made in the US, you might want to actually check some facts before posting next time.

Wrong. They do make a lot of things in Columbia, but the SCAR is not one of them. Some Mk 19 parts, M-16s, M240s, M249s and a bunch of barrels for other companies such as Bravo Company and Noveske are made here.
 
Military SCARs are built in Columbia, SC. Civilian and LEO 16s and 17s are built in Herstal and shipped to Columbia for a magazine and a pin insertion in the mag well to fall under compliance laws.
 
Military SCARs are built in Columbia, SC

Not yet, if ever. I was in the plant two weeks ago.....

OP, I like the SCAR 17 and am seriously considering one. The only off set for me is the magazines. The very positive thing is the ease of mounting optics and RDS. IMHO, it would make a super "do anything" .308 autochucker. I may have to sell a few rifles to buy one and I'm a bit concerned about magazine costs.
 
AL,
If you had eyes on the ground, then I will bow to your intell. I was told they started by now.

I have heard mags are $55 to $75. That is not much more then AR10 mags. And they will go down and eventually there will be mil contract overuns.
 
To me a key advantage of the -17 is that it is apparently a solid, reliable battel rifle that is compact and light in weight (the traditional downfall of such guns) while remaining shootable in terms of recoil and muzzle rise. American Rifleman tested the gun this month, muzzle flip was certainly more than a 5.56 NATO but apparently very controllable given its size and weight.

Personally, the only .308 I have fondled that compares to the SCAR 17 for weight and balance is the KAC SR-25 EM Carbine...and that costs $2k MORE.
 
It has a reciprocating charging handle, is truly ambidextrous, has a standard buttstock with adjustments for better cheekweld, has no buffer tube which allows for a folding buttstock, is piston driven rather than direct impingement, and was actually designed for the piston system.

A different feature isn't necessarily a better one. Reciting a list of features doesn't make them superior in and of themselves, it's the ability to do something in a measurable superior way compared to some other method.

Don't forget, what the SCAR also does well is have all the M16 enhancements built into the basic platform up front. It's the next step based on the pioneer breaking trail. It didn't invent anything more, just used what has been out there for decades in other firearms.

Name one original, unique design feature of any SCAR that hasn't been sold for years for the AR market. Really.

Including them in one package just makes it an incremental improvement at best. The cost certainly proves it, the law of diminishing returns means you get a piston AR that was at least run through an engineering analysis as a fix up, for twice the price.

That still doesn't justify how much better any one of the listed items might be better, if at all. Reciprocating charging handles get hung up on door jambs or tree trunks, watch that. Shooting off handed is rare, a urban combat or competition range technique most owners never practice. An adjustable buttstock is an institutional compromise, if it's your weapon, either get one the right length, or get used to it like millions of others have successfully done. Being able to run it shorter for body armor, may I ask to see how many 1) own body armor, 2) shoot with body armor? Only mil/LEO do that, a small number of professionals.

Folding buttstock? You have to shoot a weapon accurately with it extended, no one can really shoot from the hip and hit anything. Delaying the time to get a weapon into a ready to use shooting position doesn't sound like an enhancement, it's accepting a compromise because they were hiding in a cramped armored vehicle. That's really a doctrinal issue on low intensity conflict, not a superior feature.

As for being a piston, it's based on assuming it's operation is superior to DI. That argument's been going on for over 45 years, pick which side you want to ignore. It's already apparent someone has - which means they are in denial that a combat weapon used for 45 years in over a dozen conflicts does the job. Pointing that out, all over again, for multiple pages, isn't the point of the thread. 9 million M16/M4/AR15's, with over 20 million trained users in the US alone, won't change some minds. They prefer to work in ignorance.

If you want to spend money for something, go ahead. Folks do that with cars, watches, and knives all day. Justifying the expense is really no one else's business - unless tactical and combat reasons are pushed on a public forum to be examined and questioned. Well, there are good reasons not to, just like spending $4000 on a Rolex doesn't compare to a quality $400 quartz chronograph. You will get more for your money with the less expensive watch, you won't get the social enhancement of wearing a Rolex.

It's a choice, but it doesn't mean it's a proven superior in tactical use, and it will not make the owner superior, either.

That takes hard work, developing skill, and the expense of training and ammo.

I think you missed what I was saying. I was responding to someone who said it was just a fancy AR-10, which is demonstrably untrue. My list of features was entirely relevant in proving that point.

I have neither the firsthand experience with the rifle nor the professional expertise to claim it's any better or worse a fighting arm than previous weapons.
 
If they are trying to get the military contract, why in the hell don't they design the SCAR to take KAC pattern mags, so it will share mag commonality with the M-110? The .mil's all about parts commonality. It would help the rifle's sales commercialy too, I'm sure (though FN wouldn't make as much off mag sales).
 
I want a SCAR so bad...

I told my significant other at the last gun show I wasn't leaving the show without a scar. She informed me I would have two scars and wouldn't enjoy the 2nd one the least bit.

I still want a scar...
 
Originally posted by LiquidTension
Wrong. They do make a lot of things in Columbia, but the SCAR is not one of them. Some Mk 19 parts, M-16s, M240s, M249s and a bunch of barrels for other companies such as Bravo Company and Noveske are made here.

Can you provide a source for this information? Where did you hear that BCM and Noveske get their barrels from FN?
 
It's funny, I have found FN to be probably the most accomdating Firearm Industry leader operating today. If you find yourself in Columbia, give them a call. They will invite you on a tour, if your picking out a FN product they will even allow you to watch it get manufactured if you want to take delivery another day. They are really nice and quite helpful.
Apparently 75% of all LMGS in theater today are FN products, and the FN Minime is one of the the most popular
 
Apparently 75% of all LMGS in theater today are FN products, and the FN Minime is one of the the most popular

Pretty much everything below the size of the .50 cal and mini-guns are all FN designs nowadays, so 75% is possibly even conservative as numbers go.
 
Liquid Tension, Arkady and I had a tour two weeks ago. Very interesting. The MK48 (7.62 version of the M249) was just flat neat.
 
I'm a complete noob when it comes to .308 but it seems clear even to an amateur that this weapon is a 300 +/- yard tool for squads of well trained teams... and that most think it is not a particularly attractive weapon nor one that would currently be economical to maintain unless it was a tool issued by your employer i.e. Uncle Sam.
I am at a loss to understand why anyone would be fascinated by the rifle considering it doesn't have any practical advantage to a civilian.
I understand the idea of being a collector and I understand that it has a few neat features like reduced recoil and 3-4 adjustments to make it a comfortable rifle to shoot but it's not like it's a Star Wars laser gun or a disintegration ray or comes with an X-Ray scope to see through bikinis.
 
The use of the .308 by SOCOM fills a niche, and the 17 provides a gun that will do it.

In terms of every soldier needing one, not so much. The Army only refurbished 5,000 M14s to send to combat troops in Afghanistan, compared to 100,000 M16/M4's in 5.56. Most soldiers don't need .308.

One report on the concept of what was really needed has recently resurfaced: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...equirements-for-an-infantry-hand-weapon-1959/

Basically, the weapon needs an optic, and soldiers don't need a cartridge with the power of the .308. It's too bulky and inhibits accurate shooting.

There's a reason the .308 is now a supplementary round for a trained shooter, not the everyday carry weapon for all.
 
I'll tell you what, I'll buy one of these in a heartbeat if the conversion kits get released to the civilian market.
 
In what way does a .308 inhibit accurate shooting? Honestly I have never considered the .308 to be a hard kicking rifle, or one that is even remotely difficult to shoot well. Maybe Tirod has trouble with something that recoils more than a .223, I suppose there are those that do, those folks just don't have any business being in the infantry. Not that a .308 is the perfect answer to all problems, far from it, but it does have some advantages over the .223. While the .223 works (and I unfortunately do have personal first hand experience) it does have plenty of shortcomings, particularly out of a 14.5" bbl.
 
They are nice BUT overpriced IMHO. I don't think it's THAT big an improvement over the many other piston driven systems already available. I think people nowadays are putting WAY to much emphasis an everything being ambidextrous and tacti-cool.
 
American Rifleman tested the gun this month, muzzle flip was certainly more than a 5.56 NATO but apparently very controllable given its size and weight.

Has American Rifleman ever had something negative to say about any weapon they reviewed? These are the same folks who gave Hi Point pistols a positive review a few years back, which was about the moment I quit paying much attention to any of the review/evaluations they do. Not saying the Mk 17 is a bad gun, just noting the positive press in American Rifleman is about like saying "I say a Toyota commercial that said Toyotas were really good."
 
Over the past two weekends we have been testing the SCAR 17. Finding we are liking the gun a lot. Once shooter uses HK 91 with the sniper trigger. The other uses FN-FAL both standard and the para model.
The two stage trigger is nice for a battle rifle. Just a little bit of creep. We have fired just over 200 rounds of South African surplus and are getting about 2 " groups with that. That is as good as I have every been able to get with the SA.

We 168 grain Gold metal Match we are able to get 1 inch three shot group at 100 meters. It does take some doing but the rifle is capable.

We found the rifle very capable. We can use it as a CQB if needed the double taps were not much longer then what we are able to do with our AR 15's.

We have had no malfunctions thus far.
Dis-advantages are the cost of the rifle and getting magazines for it. Hoping Mag-Pul will produce magazines for it.
 
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