Sl2squeeze
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I have Cold Steel's AK-47 and I love the striking pommel feature. I am wondering if there are other options out there that anyone would recommend?
Folding knives with striking pommels
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Boker's Jim Wagner Reality-based knife is a folding fighter with a "glass breaker" shaped pommel. If you ever buy one, consider the smaller model because this thing is still huge when folded.
Spyderco Yojimbo has a pommel designed as a striking surface, but it isn't shaped though.
Spyderco Yojimbo has a pommel designed as a striking surface, but it isn't shaped though.
scbair
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My Benchmade Ruckus has a pretty long handle, and the pommel would work well as an impact weapon, although it's not obviously designed as such.
357wheelgunner
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I like the Emerson CQC-8 and Commander because they have a pointed end to the handle that could be used for breaking glass or bones. My Super CQC-7's handle is long enough to protrude past the bottom of my hand but it's squared off. Still better than bare hands...
MostlyGenius
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I guess I am not sure what good a striking pommel is, especially on a folder. If you have have a knife why are you using it as a fist load/kubotan?
Mostly Genius said:
Think on that a little. If you're carrying a fighting knife because you may have to defend yourself with it why would you sacrifice the ability to use it to enhance a punch or smash? It's not like the only thing you're going to do in a fight for your life is stab or slash with a knife is it? Don't get blinded by the primary design of any tool and neglect other applications.
MostlyGenius
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HSO:
I think it is the rare occasion that I will be in a fight, have a knife in my hand, and need to pommel strike. I can't see optimizing for this corner case.
I am not sure where a pommel strike stands in terms of UOF/Legalities. It is an interesting question that if I hit you with my closed knife does it constitute a knife attack, but I think it is academic.
I think it is the rare occasion that I will be in a fight, have a knife in my hand, and need to pommel strike. I can't see optimizing for this corner case.
I am not sure where a pommel strike stands in terms of UOF/Legalities. It is an interesting question that if I hit you with my closed knife does it constitute a knife attack, but I think it is academic.
357wheelgunner
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A knife can do more than cut. I keep a knife to clear a path to safety, whether it's blocked by a cord or a rope or a seatbelt or a glass car window or a badguy in a very strange situation. Glass windows are hard to cut or punch through, a sharp edge to a handle makes short work of one. I want my knives to be as versatile as possible.
Knives for SD is kind of a funny idea. A knife is great for killing people, over the course of a few minutes. If I'm in an SD situation I am going to leave the knife in my pocket and take the guy to the ground or break his limbs to end the fight quickly. I'm much more likely to use a knife against a crazy wild animal than I am a crazy wild person.
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MostlyGenius
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If your primary concern is breaking glass then I you'd be better off with a punch, but I'll concede that a pointed butt cap is great for breaking glass. I don't believe that counter-window was the original intent of the poster though.
357Wheelgunner: Knives have been self-defense tools since man could nap flint. You don't have to kill an assailant for the knife to be effective, as many (if not most) will quit if you open up parts of their anatomy. At a minimum a knife can render limbs mechanically useless.
Your ground grappling strategy will fall apart against multiple assailants, a more skilled (or advantaged) single assailant, or an assailant with a knife.
Knives certainly have their place in self-defense for purposes of fighting in a grappling situation, times where you cannot have a firearm, and handgun retention.
357Wheelgunner: Knives have been self-defense tools since man could nap flint. You don't have to kill an assailant for the knife to be effective, as many (if not most) will quit if you open up parts of their anatomy. At a minimum a knife can render limbs mechanically useless.
Your ground grappling strategy will fall apart against multiple assailants, a more skilled (or advantaged) single assailant, or an assailant with a knife.
Knives certainly have their place in self-defense for purposes of fighting in a grappling situation, times where you cannot have a firearm, and handgun retention.
357wheelgunner
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Um.....I've fought two guys before, and I've fought one guy with a knife. Both times I had a cold steel 4" voyager clipped to my pocket, both times the knife stayed where it was.
The two guys fight ended quickly when one was thrown down, hitting his head on the road, and the other's face was taken apart by too many pulled punches (this is where I learned that holding back makes a fight take way longer, but I was learning). Had I stabbed them they might not have realized it until the fight was over and they were dying.
The guy with a knife ended up with a dislocated shoulder. Had I drawn my knife instead of focusing on controlling his, we both would have ended up cut to pieces. I don't harbor any fencing fantasies where I partake in a knife duel and walk away without a scratch. I barely avoided being stabbed in my abdomen as it was.
What would happen if you didn't have your knife or gun with you?
I need a lot more training before I'd reach for the knife first. Until then it's very situational and highly unlikely to be drawn even if violently attacked (again) as I'm probably better off using my bare hands (again).
George Hill
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I took my Cold Steel AK-47 to a grinder and removed the striker portion, then beveled the g-10 scales all around, giving them a nice radius... MUCH better knife know.
MostlyGenius
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Congratulations on your success. I guess at no time did you decide that you wanted your knife in hand so you could pommel strike (the original gist of the thread.)
I never said anything about fencing or knife on knife fighting. I mentioned grappling, handgun retention, and times you didn't have a firearm. More power to you for handling the situation without using your knife or firearm. I don't believe that your anecdote in anyway disproves the utility of a knife for self-defense.
While it is not related to this thread, the "what if you don't have a gun/knife" question is answered the same as anyone would "I'll do my best." I also have some grappling, and unarmed fighting skills.
I never said anything about fencing or knife on knife fighting. I mentioned grappling, handgun retention, and times you didn't have a firearm. More power to you for handling the situation without using your knife or firearm. I don't believe that your anecdote in anyway disproves the utility of a knife for self-defense.
While it is not related to this thread, the "what if you don't have a gun/knife" question is answered the same as anyone would "I'll do my best." I also have some grappling, and unarmed fighting skills.
poor_richard
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There are plenty of knives out there with a glass breaker on the end.
My personal (uneducated) opinion on knives designed with the pommel strike in mind:
There may be some knives that advertise this feature, there are some where it is obvious (Spyderco Yojimbo), and there are some where it is just built into the knife as a natural result of the design process (Emerson Commander). Most of these have in common a part of the end where the handle forms a small cross section. The small cross section in theory (and practice if you believe James Keating) facilitates the user to concentrate a large amount of force onto a small area, acting as a “force multiplier”. While it’s not so much “mall ninja” as it probably is “having the best to defend you”, the purpose driven strike pommels (made up term) probably do make a difference. Thing is, how much of a difference do they make? Take a Spyderco Yojimbo, and a Buck 110 and use both to beat on a 2x4, and see how more effective one will be over the other. Guaranteed that if you thump someone with a 110, they are most certainly going to feel it! Datu Kelly Worden actually designed his Worden Tactical to be used as a sap, and the end is quite rounded. Fact is, most folding pocketknives have handles that are so small that they will act as a force multiplier, without the additional decrease in cross section.
The principal is the same with crenulated bezels on flashlights. The “strike bezel” may (or may not) have the ability to create more cuts, thereby drawing more blood when used as an impact weapon, but a regular bezel of an aluminum flashlight is a devastating weapon in it’s own right.
I once had an online conversation with Chad Los Banos in which he told me of how he tested an Endura (now Endura 3) on a sheet of plywood, and put some serious dents in the wood. This is a squared, FRN handle with no steel in it whatsoever. If you get hit with it, there probably won’t be much difference than if you got hit with a Yojimbo. They are both going to do some serious damage. I think this is one of those areas where, it’s not the size or caliber, but shot placement that is more important.
Just my $.02.
My personal (uneducated) opinion on knives designed with the pommel strike in mind:
There may be some knives that advertise this feature, there are some where it is obvious (Spyderco Yojimbo), and there are some where it is just built into the knife as a natural result of the design process (Emerson Commander). Most of these have in common a part of the end where the handle forms a small cross section. The small cross section in theory (and practice if you believe James Keating) facilitates the user to concentrate a large amount of force onto a small area, acting as a “force multiplier”. While it’s not so much “mall ninja” as it probably is “having the best to defend you”, the purpose driven strike pommels (made up term) probably do make a difference. Thing is, how much of a difference do they make? Take a Spyderco Yojimbo, and a Buck 110 and use both to beat on a 2x4, and see how more effective one will be over the other. Guaranteed that if you thump someone with a 110, they are most certainly going to feel it! Datu Kelly Worden actually designed his Worden Tactical to be used as a sap, and the end is quite rounded. Fact is, most folding pocketknives have handles that are so small that they will act as a force multiplier, without the additional decrease in cross section.
The principal is the same with crenulated bezels on flashlights. The “strike bezel” may (or may not) have the ability to create more cuts, thereby drawing more blood when used as an impact weapon, but a regular bezel of an aluminum flashlight is a devastating weapon in it’s own right.
I once had an online conversation with Chad Los Banos in which he told me of how he tested an Endura (now Endura 3) on a sheet of plywood, and put some serious dents in the wood. This is a squared, FRN handle with no steel in it whatsoever. If you get hit with it, there probably won’t be much difference than if you got hit with a Yojimbo. They are both going to do some serious damage. I think this is one of those areas where, it’s not the size or caliber, but shot placement that is more important.
Just my $.02.
auschip
Member
Mercop may address this, as I think his folder into the fight class talks about using the knife as a striking implement before opening. I haven't taken any of his classes, but I believe the idea, is that you can't always open the knife, especially if you are being rushed, but it can still be used as a weapon. My two EDC folders are the Benchmade fullsize Skirmish, and the Snody designed Benchmade Resistor, and I think both would be able to serve in that function if I needed them.
It's always to a good idea to have options. A folder that makes a good impact tool when closed or open gives you more options.
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While I have never used a knife for a impact weapon..I have used a original type leatherman "closed" for a back of the hand strike to a person that grabbed me from behind and grabbed my neck as I was fixing a car..instant release and enought time to transition to my firearm.Almost Anything can be a "strike pommel" type weapon.
Using a folding knife as a knife is fine when it's already in your hand. If it's in a pocket it is simply unreasonable to assume that the BG will give you the necessary time it takes to remove it from your pocket, open it and then use it.
Getting it in your hand and using it closed as an impact weapon takes much less time, and is therefore a good option. You might find that the blunt impact works and the need to open the blade vanishes.
Getting it in your hand and using it closed as an impact weapon takes much less time, and is therefore a good option. You might find that the blunt impact works and the need to open the blade vanishes.
cracked butt
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I carry a Gerber 'Leatherman' type tool as well. On the Gerber, the Needlenosed pliers slide out of the handles and lock in place with a snap of the wrist.
JTW Jr.
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FerrK made this hand checkered Ti backspacer for my Strider AR...
Certainly could be used as an impact object if needed , tested at the local boneyard it takes out a car window rather nicely.
Certainly could be used as an impact object if needed , tested at the local boneyard it takes out a car window rather nicely.
Giolli Joker
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alwilliam what's that "angled" black knife?
I'm sure I've already seen it, but I can't remember what it is...
I'm sure I've already seen it, but I can't remember what it is...
The aforementioned Surefire.
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