I've got another true bear story. We were on vacation the first week of August, a few miles southwest of South Fork, Co. We heard some racket and about 30 feet from the back door of our cabin was a bear, fairly young. It calmly walked across the wooden bridge spanning the south for of the Rio Grande and climbed up into to mountains with a small crowd of people following it, taking pictures, etc. No shots were fired. The bear or I should say bears came back for about three days. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. After seeing that bear I was sure wishing I was carrying my S & W 28-2 just in case.
For all you guys that said a handgun is not for Grizzly.
- Thread starter Redhawk1
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earlthegoat2
Member
I still dont think a handgun is for grizzly.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Blind acceptance isn't an analytic skill. Calling not doing analysis as analytic is dumb.
Cosmoline
Member
Well if it's any consolation I'm paying today. I did my bike-hike-shoot-bike business yesterday. It was drizzly with very few people on the trails so I probably went too far. Everything aches today including my shoulder from the .450 Marlin test loads. Ah to be thirty again.
On the plus side the custom 94 big bore is doing great with the new "old man" iron sights. I put a big old sourdough in front and a nice aperture in back so even my increasingly iffy rt eye can get the picture. I was shooting 1" groups at fifty with the lighter cast performance loads and about one and a half inch groups with the heavy loads. I'm shooting all cast now, no jackets at all. That sucker can really kick, but it's incredibly packable. I'm planning on doing a mixed bag hunt with it next month, time permitting. I can shoot anything from squirrel to brown bear with it. In the scabbard it rides easy and can be drawn fast. Plus unlike a handgun it won't take raw luck to make a fast shot.
No way. The hungry ones are the mean ones, and it's not like the animal died of infection.
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MCgunner
Member
The "pack scabbard" idea is interesting. I usually just sling my rifle muzzle down on my off side. I can swing it up pretty fast with my off hand if I see game. I don't do that with 28" shotguns, but it works with my 20 gauge coach gun and my rifles. If you're doing something like riding a bicycle or climbing or other than just walking along a clear trail, it's not the best, though. A back or pack scabbard would get it out of the way so it wouldn't be slipping off the shoulder.
My little Rossi 92 is super handy, but it's a .357 magnum. In big bear country, big bore would be necessary. I'd need a new lever gun. I can shoot squirrel with it, though, and still eat what's left if I'm using .38 loads. LOL .450 on squirrel? Well, guess you ain't shootin' for the meat. LOL!
My little Rossi 92 is super handy, but it's a .357 magnum. In big bear country, big bore would be necessary. I'd need a new lever gun. I can shoot squirrel with it, though, and still eat what's left if I'm using .38 loads. LOL .450 on squirrel? Well, guess you ain't shootin' for the meat. LOL!
Cosmoline
Member
This is a unique big bore and probably a unique levergun. It has a choke adapter and I've rigged up special No. 6 shotshells. With the adapter in place it patterns OK. Not perfect, but good enough. Also it shoots roundballs with a light charge of unique with amazing accuracy.
MCgunner
Member
WOW, that's neat! Any pics? You got a thread on it in the Rifle forum? I must have missed it, if so. Sorta like a .410 contender, but a lever repeater. Does the choke straighten out the shot charge, stop the spin, like the contender's does?
Mmm, I guess you're sayin' you load .450 brass with shot. That'd work, too. I've used wadcutters to make shot loads with .38 brass just to try it after reading an article. I don't need no stinkin' shot for snakes, though, no real need in .38. A .450 case would be about as big as at least a 2.5" .410, though. I bet you could shoot game out to maybe 25 yards with a choke.
Nifty idea!
Mmm, I guess you're sayin' you load .450 brass with shot. That'd work, too. I've used wadcutters to make shot loads with .38 brass just to try it after reading an article. I don't need no stinkin' shot for snakes, though, no real need in .38. A .450 case would be about as big as at least a 2.5" .410, though. I bet you could shoot game out to maybe 25 yards with a choke.
Nifty idea!
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I still remember the stuffed Silver Tip Grizzly standing in Tuppens Sports Shop. The plaque, as I remember it, the bear took three rounds of either 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag. The bear was big.
Against a bear, I would think that a rifle is a better firearm to use than a handgun. And a handgun is better against a bear than your fingernails.
You use what you have.
Tequila Mockingbird
Member
A healthy five to ten year old can be hungry and mean. And harder to kill because he's not in a weakened condition. And he'll move much faster...
Cosmoline
Member
I wouldn't bet on it. Most of the coastal brown bear are fat, and happy. They don't want a fight with people, let alone to eat us. But the injured or sick ones who have gotten muscled out of the good fishing spots and can't take a moose are the ones that sometimes decide to eat a person. They worry me a lot more, and when a brown bear is running on that legendary adrenaline they have I don't think it matters one bit how sick it is. They're amazing beasts that can keep going after their heart is shot to pieces.
This fellow just got a good shot in, and from the look of that bear I'd say he was real lucky. The lean condition for the season, combined with the lack of barking or slapping is a classic indication that this was going to be lunch time.
This fellow just got a good shot in, and from the look of that bear I'd say he was real lucky. The lean condition for the season, combined with the lack of barking or slapping is a classic indication that this was going to be lunch time.
Tequila Mockingbird
Member
Agreed...it was definitely a predatory attack, not a defensive attack. Only the shooter actually knows what happened. My suspicion is that he embellished the story a bit in terms of distance and time involved, but that's only conjecture on my part. He also didn't say anything about his hearing loss after firing multiple shots from a 2 1/2 inch 454...
texagun
Member
Logos
member
Alas, this thread has devolved into childish jokes about bear droppings.
I was the first to mention how ridiculously far-fetched this shaggy bear story was, and I stand by what I said.
Even the fastest pistolero in the world would not be able to react to a surprise threat from behind, turn, draw and shoot that .454 three times in less than a second.
It involves two little things called reaction time and recoil.
I can't help but notice that absolutely NOTHING has been said about where this bear was shot.
Was it in the head? Is there any evidence of that hit?
Somebody said lung shot, but no.....the bear's nostrils show no trace of blood.
Only the mouth is bloody......just like a car-killed dog.
Oh, there's a lot more that stinks about this story, but until somebody can answer these rather basic questions.....why go into it?
I was the first to mention how ridiculously far-fetched this shaggy bear story was, and I stand by what I said.
Even the fastest pistolero in the world would not be able to react to a surprise threat from behind, turn, draw and shoot that .454 three times in less than a second.
It involves two little things called reaction time and recoil.
I can't help but notice that absolutely NOTHING has been said about where this bear was shot.
Was it in the head? Is there any evidence of that hit?
Somebody said lung shot, but no.....the bear's nostrils show no trace of blood.
Only the mouth is bloody......just like a car-killed dog.
Oh, there's a lot more that stinks about this story, but until somebody can answer these rather basic questions.....why go into it?
DougDubya
Member
A handgun can be bear defense.
A handgun might even be defense against a Grizzly or Polar Bear.
But honestly, I'd rather have a jeep-mounted Ma Deuce to protect me from angry poppa bear. The bonus of the jeep-mounted machine gun is that you can drive away if the Ma Deuce misses.
A handgun might even be defense against a Grizzly or Polar Bear.
But honestly, I'd rather have a jeep-mounted Ma Deuce to protect me from angry poppa bear. The bonus of the jeep-mounted machine gun is that you can drive away if the Ma Deuce misses.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Logos, you are amazing. Every one of your original complaints was addressed, but instead of accepting that your concerns were for naught, you have backtrapped and come up with new standards for what you think must be met for the story to be valid.
You wanted a newspaper story and it was provided.
You claimed lung shot couldn't drop a bear and that was addressed.
You doubted a pistol could do it and that was addressed.
You didn't want to believe Brush's story, but there was confirmation by a ranger.
No you demand to know where the shots landed and why no blood was shown coming out of the nostrils. Something tells me that even if this information is provided, that you will just come up with yet some other reason to claim the story isn't valid.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/08/15/Man-kills-hungry-bear-that-charged-him/UPI-56561250319356/
You know, the State of Alaska is satisfied with the validity of the story. They investigate this sort of thing on a fairly regular basis. You can doubt all you want, but the incident has been investigated by professionals from the area. I don't know what more you could ask for in regard to justification/validity.
You wanted a newspaper story and it was provided.
You claimed lung shot couldn't drop a bear and that was addressed.
You doubted a pistol could do it and that was addressed.
You didn't want to believe Brush's story, but there was confirmation by a ranger.
No you demand to know where the shots landed and why no blood was shown coming out of the nostrils. Something tells me that even if this information is provided, that you will just come up with yet some other reason to claim the story isn't valid.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/08/15/Man-kills-hungry-bear-that-charged-him/UPI-56561250319356/
You know, the State of Alaska is satisfied with the validity of the story. They investigate this sort of thing on a fairly regular basis. You can doubt all you want, but the incident has been investigated by professionals from the area. I don't know what more you could ask for in regard to justification/validity.
Logos
member
No, I said only a brain or spine shot could drop a bear instantly. I said if it was a lung shot we'd see blood from the nostrils--there was NONE.
Are you paying attention at all? I said that a brain or spine shot could drop the bear instantly. What part of that do you not comprehend?
No, there was no "confirmation" by a ranger. Brush was the only witness. Barring the contrary testimony of other witnesses--the investigators have to accept the story--bizarre as it is. They apparently gathered no information as to where, or if, the bear was hit and where that bullet came to rest (if there was a bullet involved) so there was no real "investigation" it would seem.
There's no way to "satisfy" anybody on this, because the only witness is playing it for 15 minutes of fame and publicity for his business (just as I thought in the first place).
In any other such story here, we'd have information on where the bear was hit and where that 350 grain bullet ended up......but the principals are shying away from that on this story.
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Logos
member
Oh.....and your supporting link says, "An Alaska fishing guide says he killed a grizzly bear that charged him..."
Yeah, that about sums it up.
Yeah, that about sums it up.
Cosmoline
Member
You're right Logos. Maybe the bear was whacked in a mob hit and this is just a very clever coverup. Have you actually seen a LARGE mammal hit by a vehicle hard enough to kill it? There's not a little bit of blood around the mouth, there's a lot of blood everywhere, including the vehicle. Not to mention visible and horrific trauma to the beast. Pretty much what you'd find with a horse getting run down.
There you go. Are you claiming the troopers can't tell road kill from a DLP shooting?
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/story/897940.html
Besides which, if he HAD run over it, why would he make up a story about shooting it?
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texagun
Member
Logos probably believes that O.J. didn't kill Nicole. He probably thinks she was hit by a car.
Cocked & Locked
Member
better than leaving it at home....
Logos
member
Cosmo:
Here's one of the comments below the news story in your link.
Some honest Alaska local hereby verifies my suspicions about motive:
Like I said.
texagun
Member
Logos, please post a link to the source of your post.
Thanks.........
Not necessarily. I've shot plenty of pigs, coyotes and other varmints that bleed from the mouth when lung shot. NOT hit by a car, but blood coming through where they breathe. If the bear had been laying down even at a negative slope towards the anterior, then the blood could have easily pooled as well along with being lung shot.
Sorry to dispel your mythbusting ability, but it's HIGHLY probable this is true.
In addition, deer that have been shot in the heart/lungs combo have been dropped in their spots as well... killed instantly. Depends on the round that is used, so it is incredibly possible that a shot from a .44Mag or a .257 Rigby could have done the same.... for crying out loud, a .40S&W could have done the same thing. Shot placement with a penetrating projectile will stop an animal if it's placed just right.
I've seen pigs shot with a 44mag in the brain, and still keep moving for 50-100 yards. Things like happen too.
DougDubya
Member
That, C&L, is sweet.better than leaving it at home....
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