For all you guys that said a handgun is not for Grizzly.

[Logos]

I've shot plenty of pigs, coyotes and other varmints that bleed from the mouth when lung shot. NOT hit by a car, but blood coming through where they breathe.

"Where they breathe," you say.

That's exactly my point.

The pics showed clearly that there was ZERO blood from the nostrils.

That proves it was not a lung shot. So where was the hit?

So far there has been no proof the bear was shot at all.....the person involved claims he doesn't know for sure how many shots he fired or where they went.

How convenient.

Let's hear him and this "investigator" state clearly where the bear was hit and where that "350 grain bullet" ended up.

This story stinks......simply could not have happened the way he says it happened.......and once we get to that point, the questioning must get deeper.

Why did the story change from one to three dogs?

How could three hunting dogs miss a large and smelly old bear a few yards away from them?

Nobody can react to a threat from behind, turn and identify it and then draw and fire a .454 as fast as this guy claims.

What really did happen? Plenty of people here have expressed a feeling that the story is embellished or exaggerated......the only question remaining is exactly how much.

 

[Logos]

Texagun, I used Cosmo's link, which was:


http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/story/897940.html


Then I read the comments after the story and found the one I posted:

akreader907 wrote on 08/14/2009 09:02:01 AM:

To anglin3
I have known Greg Brush longer than he would like to admit. I have also personally seen what an unethical jerk he can be. He holds himself out to be such a self rightious purist when he is anything but. I have no doubt in my mind that he went looking for this bear and got a little more than he expected. I feel sorry for his wife having to clean his trousers afterwards.
This is why I do not subscribe any longer to the Fish Alaska Magazine. I am so sick and tired of seeing him tout himself as such a wonder. He is a hero in his own mind.

That, from a local who knows the man, certainly points to motive.

 

[Redhawk1]

Here we go again another Internet expert on photo necropsy.

 

[Logos]

Another myth we can easily dispel:

Adrenalin helped this guy react faster than humanly possible.

No, this guy claims it all happened in the time it takes a grizzly in, as he stated, "full charge" ("really motoring" was also used) to cover less than 20 yards.

Adrenalin cannot impact you in less than one second.....it takes several seconds for the effect to be felt.

 

[Logos]

While we're myth-busting.....

There was a claim that the authorities verified the shooter's story.

False. They could not verify the story because they didn't see what happened.

The authorities are there to see if a grizzly has been shot illegally. That is their only job.

The did not see the shooting.

The authorities ONLY check to see if a grizzly has been shot illegally.

They ONLY verified that a grizzly had not been shot illegally.

Nowhere did they show evidence that a grizzly had been shot.......nor did they confirm that a grizzly had been shot. Nor did they state that they found a bullet hole.

They don't care if a guy wants to claim he shot it.

They probably left laughing.

 

[Redhawk1]

Glad you know so much about this MR myth buster. Were you there? If not your just on a useless rant, and really not impressing anyone but yourself.

 

[Logos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUKyJHWvAww

Now that's some nice recoil.

I'd really like to see somebody shoot it three times in less than a second with heavy loads.

 

[Redhawk1]

Come on, I have a 4 inch 500 Mag that does not recoil like that, the guy shooting that is a weak shooter. Why not quit while no one is listening to you or buying into your B. S. rants.

 

[Logos]

Whether or not the claimed feat of revolver shooting is possible.....

THAT is a valid and appropriate discussion in this forum and this thread.

What could be more appropriate?

So present your evidence or state your opposing case.

Politely.

 

[Cosmoline]

Logos, YOU have the burden of proof here because YOU are challenging the credibility of the claim that he shot this bear. Where is the evidence it was hit by a car? I see no twisted limbs, no smashed ribs, no crushed guts, no organs protruding. In short NONE of the usual indications that a very large animal has been run down at speeds sufficient to kill it on the spot. Nor do I see any skid marks or gouges in the gravel road where it lies.

You have some strange axe to grind here.

I have also seen .454 SRH's fired with extreme rapidity, and I've done it myself. They will sometimes fire twice in quick succession without even trying. You are also presuming to know the speed of this charge, which is something you cannot know. Certainly many others have been able to squeeze off fast shots and hit charging bruins with short guns before, so it's hardly impossible.

You have no evidence that it was hit by a car, and you have no evidence that it was poached. In fact the troopers have ruled out poaching here. That leaves you up creek, but you don't seem to be willing to admit it.

They probably left laughing.

?? where the heck is this coming from? I have to ask, are you even from Alaska?

How could three hunting dogs miss a large and smelly old bear a few yards away from them?

Pretty easily, unless they're trained to hunt down bears. They vanish in the underbrush--even the huge ones.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Cosmoline, I think it all goes back to my original post where I noted that Logos had invested a lot of ego in claiming the story was false based on his (inadequate) research skills. He stated that if it was true, then there should be newspaper articles on the matter. When it was revealed that they existed, he balked and revised his criteria for what he would accept as being verified. As you note, he apparently thinks law enforcement (state police, rangers, etc.) in Alaska are inept and don't know the difference between animals struck by vehicles and those shot with guns.

He claims there was no proof the bear was shot, yet the state officials vetted Brush's story...which ironically including the aspect about shooting the bear.

 

[MCgunner]

You're right Logos. Maybe the bear was whacked in a mob hit and this is just a very clever coverup. Have you actually seen a LARGE mammal hit by a vehicle hard enough to kill it?

Yeah, i didn't notice any bumpers or fenders or glass in the picture, or blood from the dead driver. LOL! A large hog can ruin your day in a car or truck, and that's 350-400 lbs. I imagine a 1000 lb bear could REALLY do some damage. They're built pretty dense like a hog, too. Heck, my wife even had a nice crease in the hood and a busted headlight from a doe. Fortunately, it didn't get to the radiator.

A guy was coming back from the beach one night, no doubt sauced up at closing time, hit a 12 ft gator in the road. It killed him as dead as the gator. Took the front wheels off the truck.

 

[MCgunner]

All that said, it might not have been as fast as he claimed. You ever had to shoot under stress? I have. Adrenalin tends to mess up your sense of time. Things can kinda go slow mo in your brain. It's weird, but it's real. Has to do with physiology and the effects of adrenalin on the brain.

 

[Logos]

I have also seen .454 SRH's fired with extreme rapidity

Three times in less than a second? Where's the YouTube on that? I'd like to see it.

They will sometimes fire twice in quick succession....

Second bullet would go about straight up, we all know that.

And you say three dogs could fail to detect a bear only a few yards from them? These were German Shepherds......you know, the famous drug-sniffing dogs?

Still no explanation for why he changed his story from one to three dogs.......had he remembered that someone witnessed him earlier in the walk with three dogs--so he had to amend his first story that it was one dog that ran for home after seeing the bear?

Obviously not truthful.

Nor do I see any skid marks or gouges in the gravel road where it lies.

Nor do you see any marks from that colorfully described full speed "really motoring" "charge."

state officials vetted Brush's story

Vetted? Your careful choice of words reveals a lot. Those officials only determined that the bear was not shot illegally.....and that's all. They apparently had no evidence that it had been shot, because where it was hit or why it would have dropped in its tracks has still not been mentioned by anybody involved.

And that, normally, would be the key bit of information in such a story.

Where is the evidence it was hit by a car?

I didn't say it was hit by a car. I said there were no bullet-wounds showing and thus it looked more like it had been hit by a vehicle than it looked like it had been shot.

You're the one who changed that into me saying it had been hit by a car.

The bloody mouth is classic evidence. Looks just like too many big car-killed dogs I've seen.....and without any guts or bones protruding as in your drama-filled description.

i didn't notice any bumpers or fenders or glass in the picture

Maybe it was hit by a logging truck.

You have some strange axe to grind here.

That's a strange statement, considering that you are trying so desperately to make an impossible story sound possible.

It's not. That's easy to see.

The only question is: Just how much of it actually happened?

What's the evidence?

All we have is a very old, very dead, very skinny bear laying in the road. No bullet-holes showing in the head, yet it was dropped in its tracks while charging at high speed as though by a frontal brain shot........ACCORDING TO THE STORY.

We also have a guy who doesn't know how many dogs he had or how many times he shot or where or if he hit the bear.

Hah!

 

[Cosmoline]

I imagine having one headed for you would really tend to increase its apparent size and speed. Though that one was plenty big enough.

As far as poaching, what kind of a nut would try to poach a brown bear with a .454 snub? I don't even know where to start with that. He likely got a CNS hit and killed it cold. In light of this discussion if/when I ever have to shoot one of these guys I'm going to make sure to post detailed autopsy reports and chalk out the shells and the bear's body.

Three times in less than a second?

Two times, yes. I've done it and I've seen it done with Ruger SRH casulls. One really loud bang and TWO holes in the target with two spent rounds. It has something to do with the recoil snapping back and firing an extra round. I found it disconcerting which is one reason I sold off my SRH.

It is entirely possible to fire multiple rounds off from long or short guns at an advancing bear even in close quarters. It has been done many, many times. A fellow up in the valley a month ago shot three successive brown bears who were busting into his cabin after killing their sow.

These were German Shepherds......you know, the famous drug-sniffing dogs?

I know a great deal about GSD's. I've helped train them and I've known many of them well. They are in fact bred to IGNORE wildlife. A good one like my old buddy Cohen will walk right next to a moose without batting an eye. You can't have a guard dog distracted chasing squirrels and deer and such.

I said there were no bullet-wounds showing

What exactly are you expecting to see? You have dig under the fur to find entry wounds on an animal of that size. Esp. where the bullet hits no major parts of the circulatory system. A CNS hit need not bleed out much at all, and without the blood you'll have to dig around with a knife to find the entry hole.

big car-killed dogs I've seen.....and without any guts or bones protruding as in your drama-filled description.

A "big" 100 lb or even 125 lb dog is not in the same universe as a 700-1,500 lb animal. I've seen the aftermath of many moose strikes, and there's no ambiguity about what killed the beast. It's a ripped up, busted up mess. Often with a busted up car to go along with it.

I ask again, are you actually from Alaska?

 

[Logos]

It is entirely possible to fire multiple rounds off from long or short guns at an advancing bear even in close quarters. It has been done many, many times. A fellow up in the valley a month ago shot three successive brown bears who were busting into his cabin after killing their sow.

Ummmm......let's see.....that was with a rifle and he got arrested. How would that pertain to this discussion, exactly?

 

[Logos]

I've seen the aftermath of many moose strikes, and there's no ambiguity about what killed the beast. It's a ripped up, busted up mess. Often with a busted up car to go along with it.

And some are not visibly damaged. So what? Like I said before maybe it was hit by a logging truck.

 

[Logos]

I know a great deal about GSD's. I've helped train them and I've known many of them well. They are in fact bred to IGNORE wildlife.

These dogs, according to the owner, had been a running battle with bears for months. One had recently been cornered in their own yard under a trampoline.

So your position is that they would detect the bear but pay no attention to it?

 

[Cosmoline]

This is getting silly. The only way to satisfy you would be to do an necropsy, which is obviously not going to happen here because it was DLP.

 

[MCgunner]

Okay, one for fake, the rest say it's real.

 

[Logos]

You have dig under the fur to find entry wounds on an animal of that size. Esp. where the bullet hits no major parts of the circulatory system.

Not on the forehead of an emaciated bear. The skin of the head is heavily infused with blood vessels.....which is why head wounds bleed so badly.

 

[Logos]

Two times, yes. I've done it and I've seen it done with Ruger SRH casulls. One really loud bang and TWO holes in the target with two spent rounds. It has something to do with the recoil snapping back and firing an extra round. I found it disconcerting which is one reason I sold off my SRH.

I'm not even going to dignify that one with a response.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm not even going to dignify that one with a response.

So now I'm making stuff up too?

 

[ChCx2744]

....A .454 Casull round to a grizzly's head would do some make the sumbich flutter on the ground...

 

[61chalk]

I had a lousy day, then found this thread again still going, what was that quote..."OK, one thinks its fake, the rest beleive it". Thanks McGunner, I needed that laugh!!