Foreign semi-autos and imported parts: Saiga with AK Mag

[saul]

I have been researching placing a modified ak mag in an unmodified saiga rifle. From what I have read on THE HIGH ROAD past threads, it is the majority opinion that this would be an unimportable configuration. To make this legal one should do the foreign parts subtraction until those parts equal 10.

I have almost gone blind reading U.S.C. 18 section 922(r) and 925(d)(3) and section 5845(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. I don't see the explicit forbiding of hi-cap in a sporting rifle in those areas.
Are most people interpreting the line "is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms"? (sorry gov't language, not mine.)
Is there another government regulation that explicitly makes the connection between plus 10 capacity and non-sporting?
Is it illegal because you must modify the magazine and is that stated in a gov't regulation somewhere else?
If plus 10 capacity equals non-sporting and thus non-importable then the current post-ban high-caps that EAA is importing for saigas would also require a foreign parts subtraction mod before use. What do you think?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Unlike the former "semi-automatic assault weapon" ban which simply listed a given number of "evil" features and set a fixed criteria of what was and was not an AW, the "sporting" clause is handled a little differently. ATF takes an entire, assembled rifle and rates it as sporting or non-sporting. When looking at the Saiga rifle, it was viewed on the basis there were no >10 round magazines that would function in the rifle.

Here is how they made that decision:

1. Military Configuration.

a. Ability to accept a detachable magazine. Virtually all modern military firearms are designed to accept large, detachable magazines. This provides the soldier with a fairly large ammunition supply and the ability to rapidly reload. Thus, large capacity magazines are indicative of military firearms. While detachable magazines are not limited to military firearms, most traditional semiautomatic sporting firearms, designed to accommodate a detachable magazine, have a relatively small magazine capacity. In addition, some States have a limit an the magazine capacity allowed for hunting, usually 8 rounds or less. That a firearm is designed and sold with a large capacity magazine, e.g., 20-30 rounds, is a factor to be considered in determining whether a firearm is a semiautomatic assault rifle.

You may find this interesting reading. It is the report ATF made back in 1989 when Bush (41) told them to re-evaluate sporting vs. non-sporting.

REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION OF THE ATF WORKING GROUP ON THE IMPORTABILITY OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES

 

[Trebor]

I have been researching placing a modified ak mag in an unmodified saiga rifle. From what I have read on THE HIGH ROAD past threads, it is the majority opinion that this would be an unimportable configuration. To make this legal one should do the foreign parts subtraction until those parts equal 10.

The addition of a high-cap may be construed as manufacturing an illegal "imported foreign military rifle" from what was originally a "sporting rifle." If this is the case, then you would have to worry about the total parts count. Then yes, you would want to substitute U.S. made parts to keep the total imported parts count under 10.

The problem is that I don't think you can get a clear answer as to whether adding a high capacity detachable mag automatically makes it a imported military rifle. One person at the ATF may give you one answer, a second person might give you another. Unless it is in writing, it doesn't count.

Check with the guys at the falfiles www.falfiles.com They are usually pretty up on the whole "parts count" issue.

 

[Tomac]

It's interesting that EAA is now importing hicap mags for the Saiga rifles but won't import the 8rd Saiga-12 shotgun mags.
Tomac

 

[saul]

I found what I was looking for.

Ask and you shall receive.

I have asked this question of enough wise folks and someone found me documentation.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/report.htm
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/assault/treasrelease.htm

In 1998 The Secretary of the Treasury created a regulation declaring that Large Capacity Military Magazines (LCMM) made foreign semi-auto rifles illegal even if they had already been stripped of all their other "military" or non-importable features. So the reason this is so hard to find is that it was done separate from the 1989 import law and separate from the 1994 ban.

The important term as it applies to the import ban is Large Capacity Military Magazine (LCMM) with a capacity of more than ten. By modifying an AK mag for a Saiga or a Saiga for an AK you are adding an LCMM and thus building a rifle that would have been illegal to Import. So you would have to play the 10 foreign parts game.

Since the definition of this regulation is Large Capacity Military Magazine (LCMM) instead of Large Capacity Feeding Device (LCFD) the hi-cap factory mags for the Saiga are importable. Mags from the factory are unique to the Saiga and thus unique to a rifle that passes the sporting test. As such they cannot be define as "Military Magazines". All because of a few grams of material added to the front of the mag and shaved from the back.

The next question that raises which path to take pay for modifying the rifle to the correct parts count? Or pay extra money to order factory mags?

 

[Bill St. Clair]

I have read the 1998 study linked in saul's post above. It makes it pretty clear that semi-automatic rifles that accept large capacity military magazines (LCMM) have been determined to not pass the "sporting use" test. Hence they are not importable.

Does anybody know of an update to this determination since the "assault weapon" ban expired? The existence of the ban was one of the major reasons for the study's interpretation change.

Where can I read about the requirement that a U.S. assembled rifle made from foreign manufactured parts must contain at least ten U.S. manufactured parts? And where has the ATF stated that modifying a legally imported rifle such that it would no longer be legal to import is criminal? I've spent quite a bit of time at their web site and was unable to find anything.

Note that JoCoEmprise.com sells, for $35, 30-round Saiga magazines that were "re-engineered from AK mags and test fired 3 times (rapid fire)." I suppose there's nothing illegal about the magazines, since they're just legal AK mags with the latch tab filed down and the feed ramp slot filled. Does owning one become felonious only when it's attached to a Saiga? Why does it matter to the ATF whether Saiga manufactures 30-round magazine with "a few grams of material added to the front of the mag and shaved from the back" or JoCoEmprise or I do it ourselves to a legal AK mag? Or will the existence of 30-round Saiga factory mags cause them to reevaluate the legality of importing the Saiga at all?

Cross Connect Corporation, has a section on Converting a Saiga to Pistol Grip Configuration, which includes adding a feed ramp to make a standard AK magazine feed properly. The step 2 page says:

If you have questions about the legality of this conversion, now is the time to stop. You can get all of your questions answered at the BATF website. It is my belief that the conversion performed on these pages conforms to the letter and the spirit of the law.

He likely considers his conversion legal due to the following ten U.S. manufactured "parts" (which would make the two screws he calls "optional" definitely NOT optional):

First Son Enterprises simulated Krinkov buttstock from RPB Industries (RPB P/N AKKRST-E1).
First Son Enterprises fire control group, consisting of (a) hammer, (b) trigger, and (c) disconnector (RPB P/N AK15).
TAPCO M249 SAW style pistol grip (RPB P/N FSE014)
AK pistol grip nut and screw (RPB P/N RPB1022).
Bullet guide.
Two 6-32 or 8-32 x 1/4 pan head screws (optional).

Absurd!

 

[Bill St. Clair]

One of my blog readers did some research and found an ATF letter posted on the Saiga 12 forum concerning modifying a Saiga rifle to accept a standard AK magazine: part 1, part 2.

This references the relevant section of the Code of Federal Regulations: 27 CFR 478.39 (click on one of the 478.39 links on that page):

Sec. 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.

...

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

Note that a Saiga rifle with a modified AK mag would still be "readily adaptable to sporting purposes" by simply reinserting the stock 10-round magazine, but I don't know if the BATFE would still consider it legal.

Note that in my last post I got the sense of the "10 magic parts" regulation wrong. The rifle can contain no more than 10 of the listed foreign parts. It has nothing to do with how many domestic parts it contains.