Found ANOTHER dead deer this weekend

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ArcherandShooter

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Springmom and I are trying to figure out what's killing the young deer on our place out in Llano, TX. It's just over 25 acres, and in the last two months we've found the remains of three young deer dead and eaten while walking around the place. Two does, and Saturday a spike buck.

The last two are definitely new kills, as they were found in places we'd hiked before, and right out in the middle of a trail where we would certainly have seen them before.

There is scat nearby that looks like a bobcat's, but a bit larger than normal. Could we have a cougar on the place? Not a happy thought, as we're getting ready to release a pair of young steers in a couple of weeks.

The area is pretty rocky, so we've not seen any tracks, nor have we heard anything in the night.

Any ideas how to solve the mystery and remove the problem? If it IS a cougar, will they ever come to the kind of dying-rabbit predator calls you can use on coyotes and (I've heard) bobcats?

Thanks.
 
It could be a mountain lion, but more than likely it is either bobcats or coyotes. My guess would probably be the later.

Either way, any of the predators will come to effective calling.
 
A gamecam is in the plans, just awaiting the $$$ to make the purchase. That, and we're calling Parks & Wildlife. We went online to their site last evening and they report they have indeed recorded lion mortality in Llano county. We'll see what they say.
 
We certainly have coyotes in the area; but the scat is not that of a coyote. It is a cat. The only question is whether it is a bobcat or a cougar.

The interesting thing is that the scat is on the trails. Right near the kills. From what reading I've been able to pull together from Texas Parks and Wildlife field guides, that certainly sounds like a cougar. And there is data of cougar mortality in the county.

The bad thing is that we only get out there every few weeks, so we haven't been there when a kill was fresh enough to see paw prints, drag marks, or the tooth marks in the carcasse itself. A call to TPWD is on my to do list as soon as they're open for bidness this morning.

Springmom
 
What about wild hogs. I know that these are somewhat full grown deer, but hogs are the biggest predator of fawns in south texas.
 
The first deer we found was a fully grown doe. I have never heard of a hog taking down a grown deer. Not hogs...although we have do have some hogs passing through occasionally. Mmmmmmm. Bacon.......... :D

Springmom
 
ArcherandShooter and Springmom,

I'm not in your parts, but it sounds like you have Cougar or Bobcat trouble.


Around here, we have Bobcat and Coyote issues. A week or so ago, I had to listen to a pack of Coyotes kill a deer behind my house.

Dad and I will be setting up with a Predator Tape and a Roast soon and take out our pack.

Won't be the first time...


-- John
 
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

The wildlife biologist listened and said, "I certainly would not downplay the possibility of this being a cougar. But I don't know."

As of now nobody is going out to look around and see what they think. If I end up going up there next week to finish the corral gate, I may call the wildlife tech in the area and ask him to stop in. If I'm there, and can show him exactly what we've seen and where, maybe he can give a better opinion.

There was a confirmed kill in the area about 10 years ago. It was the biologist's opinion that, as many hunters as there are in the area for deer season, there *ought* to be more confirmed sightings than that. But they don't count sightings, they count mortality stats only. That tends to underestimate the population, and they know that; but sightings (like tornado sightings) tend to be overreported. So they go with the most conservative.

He did say he thinks we're probably ok putting calves out there as long as they're near 500 pounds. IOW, if they're big enough that a cougar can't take them down easily. Did I mention :banghead::banghead::banghead:? :rolleyes: He agreed that if I find a dead calf, we'll know we have a "bigger problem". Yeah, like being out $500 or so.....

I'll see what I can find in the predator call/decoy department in the meantime.

Springmom
 
It's probably a cougar. But here's some frightening food for thought. There are reports of a new kind of illegal immigrant coming in from Mexico: jaguars returning to the hunting grounds they were driven out of in the 19th century.
 
He did say he thinks we're probably ok putting calves out there as long as they're near 500 pounds. IOW, if they're big enough that a cougar can't take them down easily. Did I mention ? He agreed that if I find a dead calf, we'll know we have a "bigger problem". Yeah, like being out $500 or so.....
Click to expand...

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about cougars, panthers, mountain lions, or other large feline species. I *think* they hunt solo, but do not know.

That all said and done, when I was a kid (8th grade), we lost 4 300+ pound calves to a pack of 3 or 4 feral dogs one Wednesday morning. On Wednesdays, Dad left early to go to a men's Bible class at church and I would feed & water the stock. I found two dead calves, one (literally) in the last moments of its life, and a fourth one that was wishing loudly it was dead. I went back to the house, got my rifle, and put it down. That was a big $$ hit for us. On the flip side, the Deputy Sherriff whom we called said we could "exercise extreme prejudice" against any dogs wandering on our property because of the incident. Two weeks later, I made the longest killshot of my life - a dog at over 250 long paces with my Savage 110 in .270.

Point: a 300 or even 500 pound domestic calf will present little problem for a highly motivated and skilled predator - whether it kills for food or sport. Most domestic cattle have more "flight" in them than "fight." If you have Longhorns, that changes the odds slightly. But a pair of Holsteins, etc., I wouldn't give a snowball's chance in Corpus Christi in August. Save your time and money - take them to the packer plant right now and turn 'em into steaks before the cougat/et.al. does it for you.

Q
 
Check for indications on the hide of teeth marks. A cat will usually kill with a bite to the neck. Also check for bullet wounds. One way is to skin the hide and stretch it against the sun, then see where the light is coming through. If it is a predator's work you should see a distinct pattern of teeth punctures and claw marks. If it's a scattergun you'll see that plain as day, too.
 
I'm the first to admit I know nothing about cougars, panthers, mountain lions, or other large feline species.
Click to expand...
"Couger", "panther", "mountain lion" and "puma" are all different names for the same animal. P. concolor

I *think* they hunt solo, but do not know.
Click to expand...
Most certainly. They're both solitary and quite territorial, with adults meeting peacefully only for mating.
 
Bobcat will normally hunt smaller prey than deer, and for what it's worth, I have never seen a mt. lion kill that he didn't try to bury. Even if there was no brush, I could see claw marks in the dirt around the deer. I guess I would be more in mind of coyotes or a pack of dogs. Hopefully you can pin down what your predator is, and take steps.
 
There are reports of a new kind of illegal immigrant coming in from Mexico: jaguars returning to the hunting grounds they were driven out of in the 19th century.
Click to expand...

I, for one welcome this.

First, because I'm in Virginia and won't have to worry about the damage they will cause (kidding!)

Secondly, (and the real reason) I'd enjoy hunting down such a large cat without having to leave the US. (Wolves are off the endangered species list, Jags could get there too.)
 
Ware i hunt i find mnt lion kills all the time. They will kill and maybe just rip a leg off and be on their way. They usually don't eat a whole animal at once. A bobcat's most likely will stick to smaller animals to eat. I wouldn't rule out the jaguar either
 
We've had mountain lions move back in out where I am, they could sure be in Llano. I sure thought that big cats would drag a kill off, and save it to eat later. I vote for illegal hunters.
 
I live on 6 acres backing up to to a forrest, twice this winter we found deer whi had been shot but ran off and died on our property. We would find them partly eaton and our neighbor thought it could be an opossum who would find them dead and eat them.
 
I'm hungry
Click to expand...

Not for the scraps we found, you're not.

These aren't likely poacher kills. No legs left, lower jawbone gone, back part of the hide up to the neck and head still there, everything else gone. As someone said, even poachers don't eat all THAT.

We'll see what comes to the predator call.

Springmom
 
These aren't likely poacher kills. No legs left, lower jawbone gone, back part of the hide up to the neck and head still there, everything else gone. As someone said, even poachers don't eat all THAT.


Two Chupacabra. Undocumented and in this country illegally
 
As small as the deer are around here I wouldn't rule out bobcat. At least I'm hoping that's what your problem is. Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
 
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