Fraud on Internet

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PT-Partners

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I have received a few fraud attempts by email from Guns America. It is only a matter of time before they get to places like this forum.

Know your buyers. The posters are getting better with their text and content.

Know your buyers and be sure to NOT give out any information you do not need to

Check the address with search engines and always, make sure check clear.

Just be careful.
 
On that note, used ebay as a buyer the first time about a month ago, 24 hours didn't go by and I get what looked like an email from paypal saying there is a dispute on a payment I made to "so & so" for $483.98 for a "something or other", (who remembers now).
The email goes on to tell me to click a button if I want to dispute this payment (which I know I didn't do), so I click the button, luckily, Microsoft already had this email address in it's system and I got an immediate warning not to proceed as this email is a "phishing" site.
Anyway, PT started a good thread, I am usually very cautious and this still almost got me.
I think if you get something by email from any of the auction sites, do a google for their phone and call them instead of replying by email.
 
The text on the suspected fraud are getting better. I got one for these for each of the six guns posted.

Hi,
I'm Mr XXXX XXXXXX, an American Gun dealer.
Have been to the internet and i saw your posted gun,
i will like to know if you still have it available for sale,
also with the pics and condition and am willing to make the payment inform of American Cashier's Check or Money Order.
get back to me with the payment details,also with all the available picture.ok
Do get back to me ASAP cos have been searching for this gun for the past 4weeks.

Regard's
XXX XXXXX
[email protected]


You show me a gun dealer that does not know payment. I will show you someone who is not who they say the are.

Again. Just be cautious. You work hard for what you have. There is no prosecution outside the U.S. and darn little outside your state. So do not give it away because of so called good deal.
 
I get, on average, SIX of those "phishing" emails a day (I have multiple email accounts). Never, ever click on one of them. Go directly to eBay or Paypal site,and check status there.

And even though I'm paranoid (I run 2 antivirus programs,and 2 firewalls), both my eBay and Paypal accounts were recently hacked. (I hadn't used either for several months. Neither could/would tell me how this was possible.
 
Terry, aside from the payment issues to tip you, does anyone every actually identify themselves as an American gun dealer willing to pay with American cashier's checks or money orders? Obviously, folks in America aren't going to be sending you foreign cashiers checks or m.o.s.

The author of your email isn't a person with English as a first language.
 
I cross posted this on at least four other forums. Look for what does not make sense or just seems strange,

Terms such as American Gun Dealer, Asking for pictures when they are posted. There is not one item but the total picture.

Like you noticed the language. This one is SIGNIFICANTLY better the the ones I got a few years ago.

Just look for what does and does not make sense.
 
The text on the suspected fraud are getting better. I got one for these for each of the six guns posted.

Hi,
I'm Mr XXXX XXXXXX, an American Gun dealer.
Have been to the internet and i saw your posted gun,
i will like to know if you still have it available for sale,
also with the pics and condition and am willing to make the payment inform of American Cashier's Check or Money Order.
get back to me with the payment details,also with all the available picture.ok
Do get back to me ASAP cos have been searching for this gun for the past 4weeks.

Regard's
XXX XXXXX
[email protected]


You show me a gun dealer that does not know payment. I will show you someone who is not who they say the are.

Again. Just be cautious. You work hard for what you have. There is no prosecution outside the U.S. and darn little outside your state. So do not give it away because of so called good deal.
Click to expand...

The post does sound fishy, because of the broken English and calling himself an "American Gun dealer", but what do you have to lose by sending him more pics and describing the condition? Paying by cashier's check or money order is also a pretty safe way.

Maybe he meant to ask for more pics, or better quality pics. Considering his lousy English.

What do you mean by "does not know payment"?

And what do you mean by "do not give it away"? Give what away? Your personal information? Your firearm? Your money? I'm confused.

I've met quite a few Americans that have not so perfect english, especially when typed. No point throwing away a possible deal when I can't tell how he can harm you since you are the seller. You set the conditions of payment. You can even play it extremely safe and use an escrow service, with him paying the fee. It's near impossible to get cheated...
 
Those emails plague anyone who posts anything for sale on internet sites. I posted a for-sale ad on the internet for a classic car and immediately had those emails filling my in-box. Look at the email headers and find the source of the IP addresses. Very few originatyed in the US. Most were from Europe. The phishers want to send a check for more than the amount of the items sale price and have you issue a refund for the balance. I actually worked with one to see how far I could push it and actually received a check. The individual was indeed from the UK.

If you respond to one the first thing they ask for is your address, phone number, and bank information. I gave one my work address and no other personal info and received the check.

Be very careful.
 
Obviously you shouldn't give your bank account number to anyone. Using the bank account number, and routing number of the bank (public info), (nearly) anybody can do an electronic withdrawal from your account. No need to prove you are the bank account holder.

And if a guy is paying by personal check, just wait at least 2 weeks (or more) after depositing it before doing anything. If it's a lot of money, and you want to be entirely safe, create a new bank account, deposit the money, withdraw the money in cash, close the account, then send him the refund and the item. Can't imagine what the fraudster can do about it. Still an escrow service is best for large money items, let a reputable company handle the transaction, why bother yourself.
 
Play with these scumbags. Have them send you a check to a fake address. Then claim you did not get it, and give them a slightly different address. Fool with them, and waste their time and money. Make them work so hard for nothing, that getting a real job might be an option for them.
 
Paying by cashier's check or money order is also a pretty safe way.
Click to expand...

Wrong!
I was just informed by my bank that there are some pretty good counterfit USPS Postal Money Orders out there. If they're faking USPS MO's, I'm sure that cashiers checks have already been compromised. (There is a way the bank can check a Postal MO for validity. You have to request that they do it.)

If it's a lot of money, and you want to be entirely safe, create a new bank account, deposit the money, withdraw the money in cash, close the account, then send him the refund and the item. Can't imagine what the fraudster can do about it.
Click to expand...

The "fraudster" won't care cause the check/MO will be a fake in the first place. However, the bank may have something to say to you after the check bounces.
 
Wrong!
I was just informed by my bank that there are some pretty good counterfit USPS Postal Money Orders out there. If they're faking USPS MO's, I'm sure that cashiers checks have already been compromised. (There is a way the bank can check a Postal MO for validity. You have to request that they do it.)
Click to expand...

That's my point. You deposit the possibly fake MO and wait for it to clear. The seller gets to set the terms of the sale, which means how long you will wait for it to clear.

The bank "checks" the postal MO validity when they get the funds from the post office and the post office gets the MO. If the post office says its valid and have given the funds to the bank, it's probably valid...

I said a MO is safer (than a personal check) because it clears faster (could be wrong on that), and easier to detect counterfeit ones. More watermarking used than in personal checks.

The "fraudster" won't care cause the check/MO will be a fake in the first place. However, the bank may have something to say to you after the check bounces.
Click to expand...

The bank isn't going to sue you for a fraudulent check/MO from someone else... Bounced checks have some fee, maybe $20.

The more important question is, what does a fraudster gain from giving you false check/MO? Are you foolish enough to send the item before the false check/MO clears? Can the fraudster get back the money after the check/MO clears, or is there a time limit?
 
Foob, I think you don't fully understand how this fraud works. The buyer sends a forged cashier's check for more than the purchase price, which you deposit. You then withdraw cash to cover the excess amount and send it to the buyer along with the purchased object. When the forged check bounces, your bank debits your account for the full amount, leaving you out the full amount of the check and the purchased object that you sent to the buyer, for which you didn't get paid. If you have already closed the account, I'm sure the bank will be happy to come after you personally for fraud or for the amount of the check, regardless of the fact that you didn't originate the check.

The only way around this one is to wait until the check clears before you send any cash or items to the buyer. Once the check has been honored and proven valid, then you're good to go. You might be able to speed this up by telling the bank you suspect the check when you deposit it. They can probably check for forgeries fairly quickly, if they know the check is suspect.
 
Yes, you should always wait before the checks clears. My NON Us banks for example only deposits the money from a US check only after the 21 day US clearing bank regulation, so i just wait 21 days. I think all people should actually wait until the checks is clear.
 
I get these fake PayPal emails all the time. They're easy to spot because they don't address you by name. They address you as Dear PayPal Member, or something like that. PayPal and Ebay always address you by name.

When you get one of these, forward it immediately to [email protected]
 
Another good thing to watch for, they never seem to specifically state what they want to buy. It's always very general. Notice he says "Have been to the internet and i saw your posted gun" when a normal person would have said something like "I was on (INSERT WEBSITE HERE) and saw your (INSERT GUN NAME HERE)." It just doesn't sound natural. I think they just whip up a single email to cut and paste. There's apparently no time for specifics in their line of fraud.
 
I've met quite a few Americans that have not so perfect english, especially when typed.
Click to expand...

Yes, many Americans no have so perfect good English, but those Americans with FFLs don't identify themselves as American gun dealers. That aspect will be resolved in the provision of FFL information and said American gun dealers will know this. Here we are talking about location of dealing, not the nationality. Since the person is an American gun dealer and so would have an American FFL, then there would be no reason to stipulate a willingness to pay with American cashier's checks or money orders. Of course they would be American. Why would somebody go out of their way to procure foreign forms of payment for a domestic purchase?

Taken together, the guy's language and bizarre reiterations of Americanism are far from normal.

Is that a reason to blow the deal? Given the regulations and having an FFL, do you want to sell to somebody about whom the circumstances are bizarre?

Mike mentions a good point about the lack of specificity in the emails. These are often computer generated just like all the offers we receive on letting somebody from some obscure African country deposit a lot of money into our account to hold for a while and then get a big handling fee paid to us. In some of those scams, their English be more better, some not so better.
 
phishing

The first time I got one of these phishing emails from Fake Paypal, I did click on the link, because I didn't know any better at the time. It takes you to a page that is a dead-on copy of Paypal. Looks exactly like it.

Then, you are directed to a questionairre. About half way down the list of questions, it asked for my ATM PIN number. That's when the light in my head finally went on. How dumb must someone have to be to give their PIN # over the internet?

Now I get one every couple of months, it seems. :rolleyes:
 
First thank you all for your comments.

Like I may have mention before. Look at the total package. The grammer is not an issue by itself. (I'm horrible, in fact live by grammer and spell check) The request on payment is not an issue by itself (even though it is listed in text and posted). The request for pictures is not an issue by itself. (I sent 40 low resolution to the email which bounced) The request from a gun dealer is not an issue by itself (Being in the business for 25 years I know this one is not right). The lack of specifics is not an issue (standard boiler plate letter style which I get 5 or 10 every 90 days).

Look at the total package.

I may not have mentioned but I got six exactly the same on every gun I had posted on Guns America.

By the way I emailed pictures and it is a free email site. Large files bounced. That does not mean a free email site will alway be a phishing or something wrong because we all use them but all scams come from free or cloned email not pay email at least that what my last conversation with the Feds on internet crime. Pay sites leave too much of a trail.

With the comments I know I have accomplised the objective of this thread, a bit more increased awareness and a good information exchange.

If you want to take the risk go for it. Just be careful and somehow check out your buyer as well as seller. Just look at the whole package.

If you post your first gun for sale or item of any kind for sale or to buy just looking at the total package may keep you from getting "$crewed" out of what you work so hard to earn.
 
An overlooked fact is a check can clear your bank but NOT the bank it is drawn on. It can sometimes take longer than the 21 days mentioned by one poster. This is one of the many reasons I will accept a Postal Money Order only for items I sell and will only cash them at my local post office. Too many problems with other forms of payment including PayPal. When calling your bank to see if a check has cleared be sure and specify the bank it is drawn on, not your bank.
 
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