Friend pulled a gun yesterday

[tnieto2004]

Wrong again budney. I stated a few times that he was in fear of his life (as he stated to the police) or great bodily harm. You still haven't backed up what you said as far as knowing the severity of harm in a fight. You have avoided the question since you brought it up.

Apologies, chases, pushes, etc., don't matter.

Chasing people down and assaulting them doesn't mean you can protect yourself if you are in fear of your life? Maybe in California!

 

[eltorrente]

Hasn't anyone ever gotten into a fight, or a heated argument?!?!

I've gotten into so many fights over the years, and confrontations, and heated arguments, scuffles, etc.. NOONE deserved to have a gun pulled on them or get killed. That's just life folks - sometimes people get pissed at each other and things can escalate. So many are willing to kill someone because they are afraid they might get into it.

If this guy was so scared, he should have gotten into the friggin truck. Angry guy pushed his girlfriend out of the way, but he wasn't sitting on her pounding her head into the dirt. She could have gotten into the truck also. Angryguy would calm down eventuallly, like all the other angryguys out there. If he didn't, and grabbed the girlfriend and/or picked up a rock or something to break the windows and get to marineguy, then o.k. pull the gun or something till the brother can get in.

I can't believe how many "men" are so scared of other men that they'll pull a loaded gun on them to keep them at bay at the first hint of a confrontation brewing. Life must suck living with that much fear every day.

If someone pushes my girlfriend down, despite the fact that she tried to "stop" him, which precipitated her getting pushed, I wouldn't have even thought twice about it. I would have gone STRAIGHT at the guy and told him he just messed with the wrong girl and I'm gonna beat his friggin a** - and Angryguy either would have backed down (which is probably what he would have done), or he would have gotten a serious butt kicking. Big guys are used to bullying people and getting their way - as soon as a smaller guy stands up and shows he means business, it gives the bigger guy pause- and especially if he has a marine attitude to go with it!

YES - sometimes men fight and that's been a part of being a human being in this world ever since the beginning of time. Unfortunately, nowadays many men are terrified of everyone else and would just pull a gun instead. O.k., whatever - but be prepared to suffer the consequences, and don't assume that the jurors think the same way. There just might be some jurors that understand that "sometimes you gotta fight to be a man" (Thanks Kenny Rogers ).

 

[lacoochee]

I would have gone STRAIGHT at the guy and told him he just messed with the wrong girl and I'm gonna beat his friggin a** - and Angryguy either would have backed down (which is probably what he would have done), or he would have gotten a serious butt kicking. Big guys are used to bullying people and getting their way - as soon as a smaller guy stands up and shows he means business, it gives the bigger guy pause- and especially if he has a marine attitude to go with it!

That's actually quite funny because in the context of many posts in this weird thread, if the guy pulls a knife and now you shoot him...you are going to jail because you escalated the situation.

In the final analysis, if the guy had a reasonable (up to jury) fear of great bodily harm or death (and/or the same to his girl friend either will do) he will get off, or he won't. Still betting a box of donuts that it doesn't get that far.

Note: One of my greatest "fears" is that because I tend to go for the throat teeth bared when confronted with a scenario like this, is that I will forget I even have a gun.

 

[03Shadowbob]

I only weigh 275 and am 6 feet tall. I promise it'll be a gentle shove (as gentle a shove as a 275 pound man benchpressing 400 lbs can get).

Frankly Obiwankanobe if you weight 275 at 6' then unless you are an extreme bodybuilder which I doubt since you only press 400lbs, you would be out of the fight in 30 seconds or less due to cardio. I'll take those odds since I am 6' and weigh 215lbs, press 425 and train on a regular basis in H2H. Hell, when I was 19 I pressed 375 and weighed a meager 195. My point is that how big / strong you are is only part of the equation.
Maybe me and a couple others on this thread actually were taught that the only time you pull your firearm is the time you shoot it.
There are way too many posters on this thread IMHO who are just looking to shoot someone. You can say "but he pushed the girl", "but he is twice as big", but he knows Jackie Chan and I don't", etc. etc. it still doesn't excuse the fact that this guy pulled a gun on someone who did not even touch him and only offered verbal threats. Hell, if I can pull a gun on someone for yelling a threat at me, maybe I should do it EVERYDAY in South Florida.

 

[lesjones]

Some people in this thread seem to think that threatening to "kick somebody's ass" isn't a threat of deadly force or even serious injury. There are plenty of people in prison for murder right now who literally hit someone just once or pushed someone just once and killed them. Life is sometimes more fragile than you realize.

BBC: One punch is all it takes to kill
Scotsman: Ex-soldier who killed man with one punch faces prison
BBC: Family warn of one punch deaths
Associated Press: Student in jail for deadly punch warns others

Also, what's justified in using so-called deadly force varies by jurisdiction. In Tennessee it's justified by threat of life or limb. If someone came up to me and said they were going to kick my ass I'd consider that a threat to life or limb. They could easily blind me, paralyze me, or even kill me, using just their fists. In that situation I'd make it clear I didn't want to fight and try to de-escalate the situation. If that didn't work I wouldn't necessarily pull the trigger based on that threat, but I would be willing to draw a gun. An ass kicking can be a death sentence.

 

[03Shadowbob]

I am thankful I am not afraid of getting my ass kicked to the point that I have to pull out my equalizer and kill someone because he might do the Patrick Swayze on me and rip my throat out.

 

[tnieto2004]

it still doesn't excuse the fact that this guy pulled a gun on someone who did not even touch him and only offered verbal threats.

He assaulted his girlfriend. I think this is probably the 16th time I have had to remind people of that. Am I watching CNN?!

 

[03Shadowbob]

So the "bad guy" pushes some girl out of the way because, let's be honest here, she put herself in that situation and a guy can shoot and kill someone for that?

 

[frank23185]

Oh. So the badguy was beating up the girl.
Well, in that case, I agree that he was justified in pulling his pistol.
No brainer.
I hope the girl is ok. Was she hospitalized?

 

[tnieto2004]

Shoot? What shot are you talking about? No shot was fired. I don't know if the gun was even loaded. Even if a woman gets in the way, you cannot physically touch her legally. We are in the legal section aren't we?

 

[tnieto2004]

OOPS .. double click

 

[tnieto2004]

Frank,

"beating up" is so subjective. There was Assault* and Battery*.


*Assault

An assault invoves:

1. An intentional, unlawful threat or "offer" to cause bodily injury to another by force;
2. Under circumstances which create in the other person a well-founded fear of imminent peril;
3. Where there exists the apparent present ability to carry out the act if not prevented.

Note that an assault can be completed even if there is no actual contact with the plaintiff, and even if the defendant had no actual ability to carry out the apparent threat.

*Battery

A battery is the willful or intentional touching of a person against that person’s will by another person, or by an object or substance put in motion by that other person. Please note that an offensive touching can constitute a battery even if it does not cause injury, and could not reasonably be expected to cause injury. A defendant who emphatically pokes the plaintiff in the chest with his index finger to emphasize a point may be culpable for battery (although the damages award that results may well be nominal). A defendant who spits on a plaintiff, even though there is little chance that the spitting will cause any injury other than to the plaintiff's dignity, has committed a battery.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Whatever, this is ridiculous to me. I shouldn't have invested so much in this thread. Oh well. I hope your buddy gets what he deserves whether that is freedom or jail. Doesn't mean anything to me.

 

[tnieto2004]

And in the same way, my friend was charged with assault. Even though he never touched him.

Well thank you shadow bob! Your input was appreciated.

 

[TCB in TN]

Well after reading so much of this I just have to say that there are obviously to many folks on here who have never actually been in a fight. I boxed, and fought quite a lot during my youth. Broken ribs, stiches, black eyes, broken nose, hands, etc. as for the comments about being out of shape and out of the fight in 30 seconds well you are right. Most fights are over in less than that. Do you even have any idea how many punches can be thrown in 30 seconds? I do, in 1 3 round boxing match I averaged 226 punches per 3min round, so in 30 seconds that would have been around 40. Even been hit 40 times? Doubt it or you guys wouldn't be talking crap about fighting. Fighting sucks, even if you "win" you get hurt, and unless you are Bruce Lee then you are just liable to get hurt bad. I am 6' and run about 230. Not in great shape, carrying about 20 extra pounds, (I was real good about 210). But even though I used to be pretty tough, there are plenty of folks that could take me, even if I had a club. Ever been to visit a prison? I used to be on a basketball team that traveled around playing against the inmates, many of them could take me and 3 more just like me. No, fighting is for suckers or fools, I do my best to NOT be either.

BTW anyone who chases me down like this crazy guy did, certainly qualifies as a threat to life and limb.

 

[CountGlockula]

tnieto2004: And in the same way, my friend was charged with assault. Even though he never touched him.

"Assault" was the downfall of this whole situation. Who was the first one to draw a weapon? You're friend. Since the girlfriend didn't have the ovaries to step up and backed off by not pressing charges, your friend made a HUGE mistake. The big dude was just taking a walk...didn't push him, didn't get out a punch...didn't even put his breath on him.

 

[tnieto2004]

She is pressing charges. She was not allowed to at the time of the incident. She had to go to the JP to do so. I guess she has ovaries after all.

I said,

What makes me furious is that the cops told my friend's girlfriend she could not press charges on the man at the time of the incident.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

OK. This one's done.

When the OP has the full story, maybe then we'll have a discussion. Until then...

Lights out.