Friend scared me at the range!

[XDn00b101]

I've learned one important thing. That is to never trust a n00b to the range again. A while back I took a friend to the range, one who had claimed to be an ace, due to shooting like one a few years back. So HE claimed. Well when we got there I fired off 20 rounds, then set the XD-40 down on the shooting table and asked him if he knew what to do. He said yes, so then I backed away. Well... That's when everything went bad.

He picks up one of the magazines and starts to load, then he starts cursing quietly at himself. I ask what's wrong, then look. Oh boy, he was loading the bullets backwards into the magazine. I quickly tell him to stop loading, then take it from him and show him how to properly load. At this point he looks at me in frustration and anger, saying he's used to revolvers, not semi-autos. So after loading one of the mags, I tell him to now load the other. The genius loads 4 rounds correctly, then DOES THE SAME DAMN THING on the 5th round. So again I tell him to STOP, and take it away from him. At this point I'm getting angry.

So now his pride is tarnished and he says "screw it man, just shoot alone, I'll just watch since you think I'm such a screw up!!!" Then I quickly tell him beginners luck, and that I'll just load for him. So then I load up the mags and put them back on the table with the gun and tell him to go ahead. At this point the slide is locked back with both mags sitting next to it.

Now this is where it gets scary... He walks up to the range, picks up the gun, PUTS HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER, then pops in the mag, releases the slide, which his wrist is arched sideways, pointing close at the guy down range. At this point my heart has skipped a beat as I panic for a second. I quickly tell him to point it straight down the range and to keep his finger off the trigger until he's ready to shoot. Then the second mag he loaded, he thankfully loaded the gun while pointing it correctly downrange, but still had is damn finger on the trigger.

From my experience I don't think I'll ever take a newbie to the range again. The who ordeal was terrifying. It's clear even if you tell someone how to do it properly they still screw it up!!!!

 

[ConserVet]

newbies

Sounds like your "buddy" is a know-it-all type who doesn't want to listen. Sorry he tried to give you a heart attack.

I enjoy taking non-gun people to the range. As long as they pay attention and observe the most basic of safety measures, its usually a hoot taking "nOObs" out to shoot.

 

[Psssniper]

We will usually go over the safety rules and basic gun handling before we get to the range, then the new people get watched closely for a bit until we are sure they have a grasp on things and maybe then we will turn our back, maybe.

 

[SomeKid]

Never assume your party knows how to use guns.

Chick I am trying to go spend time at the range with me says she knows how it all works, but she still gets the safety chat. Politeness is important. If the guest is a know-it-all type, best to call it quits. They aren't there to learn, just shoot your ammo.

 

[cidirkona]

I definately agree with Psssniper... that kind of discussion goes on BEFORE the range. I know beforehand how a person will handle a firearm because I will have already discussed it with them.

-Colin

 

[Byron Quick]

I think you just need to avoid poseurs who are trying to be something they're not.

A newbie, who acknowledges being a novice, should be teachable. As such, they are the single most valuable resource available to the shooting community.

 

[Black Majik]

Don't let this experience ruin introducing new shooters

I've personally have had good experiences when I take new shooters to the range. And I've posted a few of my experiences on this forum. First things first, unless I KNOW they shoot on a regular basis,I'll keep a REALLY good eye on the new shooter.

Few tips I learned when I teach new shooters:

- Patience:This is key. Once tension arises from the teacher and the student, the student loses confidence and doesn't want to participate anymore. Being calm, but directive... you'd be surprised how well people shoot for their first time; providing they're willing to listen.

- Go over the rules before hitting the range: This is to reinforce a shooter that has shot before, and/or to teach new shooters the rules on the range. I go over the 4 rules, but I have a few rules myself that I tell new shooters. I also go over range ettiquette.

- Encouragement: All new shooters need positive reinforcement. Comment how they're doing good keeping the finger off the trigger. Comment on their good shooting. SHOW them how to improve their shooting

- DONT push the new shooter too hard: Remember, you're trying to convert them as well as teaching them how to properly shoot. They'll lose interest if you keep pushing them to shoot better, or to do this, and do that... which brings me to my next point.

- START SLOW: Make sure they understand everything you say before moving on. Its better to go slow and have them understand everything rather than bombard them with directions and instructions.

- Don't give them the biggest caliber: I preferrably start them with the .22 before going to the centerfire rounds. This teaches them proper sight picture, stance, and shooting technique without the adverse effects of big flash, sound and recoil.

- HAVE FUN!: A range session is suppose to be fun. Be sure you have fun as well as your new shooter.



If you want to see my experiences, I've posted them here. Just do a search and I'm sure you'll see my range reports with new shooters. Everyone Ive taken has left with knowledge... and a HUGE SMILE

Good luck.

 

[bdutton]

I never assume that a friend knows anything about guns. Each model is slightly different. Just because a friend may have used a clock does not mean they know how to handle a 1911. I always go over the functional and safety features of each firearm. I make sure the new shooter understands the range rules.

Of course, that does not cover every eventuality but at least it lets them know that *I* am watching and take the range safety seriously.

 

[TrafficMan]

hell, i've been shooting since i was 6 and i still realize that i have a lot to learn. confidence is one thing, but cockiness has no place around firearms.

 

[rbernie]

Richard's Third Rule of Self-Preservation: "Never try to introduce anyone to a potentially dangerous activity without first going thru multiple dry runs of the expected actions and outcomes."

 

[Moonclips]

The problem was your friend (?) was a poser who was actually inexperienced but was trying to appear otherwise.

I agree with the other posters that you should never assume somebody knows what their doing until you've seen them in action. In my club if you bring a guest to the range you are responsible for them.

Self-admitted newbies are no problem because they are more open to suggestions and to learning how to shoot properly. The problematic ones are the posers who like to appear experienced.

 

[Jkwas]

When I go to the range with a novice, I like to review the firearm with them and the rules before, and then we load them up with snap caps and go over the operation of the weapon before leaving for the range.

 

[rocky]

anyone who tells me they are experienced, gets to show me with an unloaded gun first. If they can handle it safely with out being told what to do, we go to the next step. As said, every gun isn't the same.

 

[Deathrider1579]

I took the entire freshmen class from my dorm floor (about 12 guys) out shooting at the biginning of last year. It was a little scarry but I had 2 other guys that were helping me keep an eye on things so no problems.

I would say TAKE NOOBS TO THE RANGE!!! its the only way to get people into the sport. Now you have to explain that it is a potentialy dangerous situation and that since you have never shot with them before you have to go over a few things that even though they might know it for your peace of mind you need to go over.

I try and take out a new shooter about once a month and I have a great time!

-DR

 

[antsi]

Don't avoid newbies, just avoid jerks.

One thing I do when I am going shooting with someone I have not shot with before is to review the safety rules out loud before anyone touches any guns. I don't do this from a standpoint of being the teacher or the "master," but simply as a review. I say "I like to say the safety rules out loud, even when I'm going shooting by myself. It's good to remind ourselves every time we pick up a gun."

The other thing I do under these circumstances is to review the specific manual of arms of the particular gun I'm lending to the other guy. Heck, I've been shooting for years, but I've never handled an XD 40 before so if we went shooting and you offered to let me shoot your XD, I would appreciate a quick review of its controls and features. Again, I don't do this from the standpoint of trying to be a know-it-all, but just from the standpoint that different makes of guns have different controls and manual of arms and it's never a good idea to shoot a gun without being familiar with how it works.

It does sound like this guy was a little touchy and egotistical, unwilling to admit when he didn't know something. But as the one teaching a newbie, you should take in on yourself to give them some information and help - and to try to do that without prickling their ego. Admittedly, this guy sounds like such an overinflated ego maybe you could not avoid busting his bubble. But whenever you're teaching anyone anything, you want to avoid making them feel stupid.

Introducing newbies to shooting is an important service that gun owners can provide. The major goals of this are 1) make sure everyone stays safe and intact 2) make sure the newbie has some kind of fun and sense of success so they leave the range wanting to come back and learn more.

Being a good teacher is not easy. Maybe you can learn something about your own teaching from this episode and what to do differently next time. (Better selection of "student" might help to start)

 

[MAUSER88]

Some people just don't get it. Find a new shooting partner, you'll live longer.

 

[Legionnaire]

I've taken a lot of newbies to the range, and have trained my own kids. In some ways, I find self-confessed newbies easier to deal with than the ones who may have shot a little and think they know more than they do. The "conscious incompetentents" are far more ready to listen and learn than the "unconscious incompetents."

One think I've found helpful is NOT asking, "Do you know how this works?" I do ask if they have shot before ... and regardless of answer, go over the four rules. But before I hand anyone a firearm, I clear it, and then say, "Let me show you how this one works." In that way, I avoid putting them on the defensive ... putting them into the position of not wanting to admit that they don't already know. If they DO already know, then what I show them is just reinforcement. But it also communicates that (1) I take safety seriously, and (2) seriously enough that redundancy is okay! If they have a problem with that, it truly is a problem, and we won't be shooting together long.

I also try to demonstrate a learner's attitude to my kids. Any time I have opportunity to shoot a new piece of hardware, I ask the owner to show me how it works. Sort of like asking a dealer if it's okay to dry fire something; it shows respect for ownership and a willingness to learn.

So model good behavior for newbies, and avoid putting them in the position of having to admit they don't know. Assume they don't! After a while, they'll understand that it's okay to admit that, and they'll be well on their way to improving their skills as well as being safe.

 

[hso]

Never assume your party knows how to use guns.

Chick I am trying to go spend time at the range with me says she knows how it all works, but she still gets the safety chat. Politeness is important. If the guest is a know-it-all type, best to call it quits. They aren't there to learn, just shoot your ammo.

Excellent advice!

We do have to treat people we've never shot with as "guilty until proven innocent" to protect the people around them and ourselves. You have no idea where they got their training and until they demonstrate that they know how to safely handle a weapon we are in teaching as well as range master mode.

 

[MechAg94]

It seems to me the basic orientation of the cartridges and feed lips on just about all detachable semi-auto magazines are basically the same. If he loads magazines backwards, that should tell you something. I think you should have let him continue and try to put in the magazine backwards.

It is stories like this that make be wonder if the Texas CHL authors had a good point when they set up that revolver only restriction.

 

[mister2]

Don't avoid newbies, just avoid jerks.

Good range advice. In fact, good rule of thumb for life, in general. Not all newbies are jerks.

 

[engineer151515]

When this happens..........

.......... Oh boy, he was loading the bullets backwards into the magazine.....

Automatically assume THIS will happen....

..... picks up the gun, PUTS HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER

You need not wait for error number 2 to occur before an immediate basic firearms safety orientation is justified.


Doesn't have to be done in an embarrassing manner. But the first error is the action point and tell your shooting buddy that there are some basic safety rules I MUST show you.

If there are any objections or you fail to follow basic safety procedures, you cannot use my guns. Period. Sorry. End of session. I will leave (with my guns) if I have to.

This is general advise - not just directed at you XD.

 

[depicts]

worse than a noobie

two days ago I went to my gun club, and there was a fellow member there I have seen around for almost 20 years.

I had my new to me Mod 34 .22 caliber kit gun, and I was shooting pretty well with it.

He asked to see it, so I opened the cylinder and handed it to him with my thumb through the cylinder port. No big deal.

Anyway...he takes the gun and looks it over, but before I could stop him, he snaps the gun to the side and tries to flip the cylinder into battery.

I could have choked him, probably should have. For some reason after that, the cylinder began to stick closed, and I noticed a deep scoring on the cylinder bolster. I've fixed it now, but this is like the third time lately that people I thought knew what they were doing either scratched my guns, loaded magazines backwards or did something else totally stupid.

I want to be friendly, but I don't think I'm handing over my guns to anyone else anymore. I was tought to respect arms. Guess I'm pretty old school. Not too many people I've seen lately seem to care as much as I do about handling someone elses guns.

 

[MedGrl]

From my experience I don't think I'll ever take a newbie to the range again. The who ordeal was terrifying. It's clear even if you tell someone how to do it properly they still screw it up!!!!

I think i might resent that quote. I am still very much a noob. it sounds like this guy you took shootin ghad a problem with thinking he knew what he wsa dooing (and claiming he did ) and then not taking it well when you corrected him...sounds like an ego problem not a noob problem.

one fo the first things i figured out when i started learning about guns 4 months ago was...leave the ego at the door! Mabey try sending him an e-mail (about whatever) with the 4 rules slipped in or some thing similar. that will give him the information and keep his pride from feeling like you were lecturing him for "being stipid"

 

[DonP]

As previously posted ...

Every new (to me) shooter I take to the range, family or friends, gets the "kitchen table safety lecture" and gun handling introduction with no ammo around, before we even get in the car to go to the range.

They are also told that I will be looking right over their shoulder until I'm completely comfortable with their gun handling.

We go over Jams, FTF and FTE procedures and the reloading drills. (They set the gun down on the counter and step back).

I also reinforce that if I tell them to leave the range, there will be no arguments or discussion of the issue on a live range. (It might be the next guy down the line and have nothing to do with them or their gun handling).

Indexing (finger on the trigger) is the toughest thing to teach new people after years of TV shooters that carry their guns that way. I tell them to watch news footage of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and they all have their finger off the trigger.

I also start with the targets pretty close up to build some confidence.

Been doing it that way for 30 plus years and no accidents or ND's so far. (Knock wood)

 

[Cuda]

Every new (to me) shooter I take to the range, family or friends, gets the "kitchen table safety lecture" and gun handling introduction with no ammo around, before we even get in the car to go to the range.

They are also told that I will be looking right over their shoulder until I'm completely comfortable with their gun handling.

We go over Jams, FTF and FTE procedures and the reloading drills. (They set the gun down on the counter and step back).

I also reinforce that if I tell them to leave the range, there will be no arguments or discussion of the issue on a live range. (It might be the next guy down the line and have nothing to do with them or their gun handling).

Indexing (finger on the trigger) is the toughest thing to teach new people after years of TV shooters that carry their guns that way. I tell them to watch news footage of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and they all have their finger off the trigger.

I also start with the targets pretty close up to build some confidence.

Been doing it that way for 30 plus years and no accidents or ND's so far. (Knock wood)

Excellent procedure.
I just got my wife interested in hand guns and did the same as you. I walked through the do's and don'ts and reinforced numerous times finger off the trigger until gun is pointed at the target and you are ready to shoot. This was without the guns even in the room. Then at the range without ammo I made her go through the motions many times before I gave her the shells. When she was ready (revolver) I only allowed her one shell at a time which at least in my mind made her load and unload more often to reinforce the procedure and to get really comfortable with how to operate the weapon.

C