Friend shot

[ryanrichmond]

Ok so he's actually a brother of a friend of a friend but regardless, it happened about 2 miles from my door in a neighborhood I've known to be safe for years.

Henry was moving some items from his work van into the warehouse of his business the day before thanksgiving this year at about 3:00 o'clock P.M. on a sunny day when 2 kids (16 or 17 years old -- based on the description Henry gave police) approached Henry asking for a job. When Henry told them he wasn't hiring, he turned back around to continue unloading his van. As he turned back around to face the boys, he was now met with a gun in his face. The boy pointing the weapon demanded his money.

Now I don't know Henry but from what his brother tells us, Henry assumed the kid was joking. I don't know why you would assume anyone pointing a gun at you and demanding money would be doing it for giggles but I digress.
So Henry playfully smacks the gun downward. The boy then raises the gun and, in mid-motion, fires 1 shot into Henry's right thigh penetrating his leg, then exiting the same leg on the other side and entering his right thigh which resulted in a broken femur.
Henry, hopped up on adrenaline, turned and ran only to be shot in the back one more time before he found cover and eventually got himself to the second floor of his business where his brother said "he fell in the door bleeding so I grabbed him and rushed him to the hospital".

Henry is fine but it got me thinking. I used to carry then I stopped due to lack of "activity" but then I heard this story and how close it was to my front door. It shouldn't have taken hearing this to encourage me to start carrying again but in the end, I now conceal carry my 642 Airweight again and it never leaves my side.

I don't know what caliber the thug was using as my buddy didn't know and it really isn't important anyway.
My neighborhood has been considered "safe" for years. I grew up around here and this is the first story I've heard where someone has been shot here.
I'm guessing it was a fluke and the 2 thugs got their hands on a gun and decided to rob someone. It didn't matter who or where and I'd be willing to bet they weren't from the neighborhood.

Oh yeah and the kids are still loose.

 

[glassman]

It sounds like Henry was lulled to sleep with the assumption of a "safe neighborhood".
Like you, I have lived in my "safe neighborhood" all my life but the influence of the city is ever increasing and affecting my quiet little suburb. The streets are getting meaner and respect for life is diminishing as each day passes. I used to think I was just being paranoid but eventually reached the reality that things are not as easy or safe as they used to be. I have been carrying for quite some time because of the way things have become and situational awareness is now in the front of my mind.

 

[shockwave]

So Henry playfully smacks the gun downward.

So far, so good. Henry should have fastened both of his hands upon the gun, swept it in a large circle and extracted it thereby from the grip of said assailant. Stepping back, he could have then trained it upon both punks and considered his options from there.

 

[DasFriek]

You cant really blame the guy for not being trained in self defense in hand to hand combat, Most people with a job have their mind on the work at hand and in certain areas can be lolled into complacency.
I no longer try and watch the evening news as half the news stories make me want to figure out how to carry an AR in .308 concealed.

But i cant imagine leaving my ccw at home,I even have gotten to the point i make sure my car doors are locked even in good neighborhoods. And i stay more aware of my surroundings just like i did when i rode motorcycles.

I hope your friends brother recovers quickly and maybe get him into a ccw course if possible.

 

[TXiceman]

It is a sad state when you can't turn your back on anyone. Really sucks.

 

[Wishoot]

No place is safe anymore.

 

[Panzercat]

So far, so good. Henry should have fastened both of his hands upon the gun, swept it in a large circle and extracted it thereby from the grip of said assailant. Stepping back, he could have then trained it upon both punks and considered his options from there.

A lot of options once the gun was off his person. If he had enough reaction time to slap the gun away, that would have been the perfect lead in to break a few bones. In close quarters like that I'd consider pulling your own gun a liabity. Your friend had the momentum of combat. Snap a kneecap next time

Though realistically, he probably just should have owned up and gave him the money. The odds were already against him with the weapon out and trained on him. Maybe do something when the dude retreated, but... Kneejerk reaction is kneejerk.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

richmond is a tuff town

 

[XD Fan]

Glad your friend's brother is recovering.

Makes me think about how complacent I am at times.

 

[Jonah71]

In the same situation I'd like to believe I would have given up the money. But even then, it doesn't mean you won't get shot. But it didn't happen to me and I really can't say for sure how I would have reacted with a gun pointed at me from that distance. And I don't want to find out. And imo, there's no such place as a safe neighborhood, town or location.... period.

 

[Carter]

My opinion is if safe places were actually safe they wouldn't need armed guards at the pentagon.

Pretty ballsy to slap away a gun and get on with what you're doing like nothing happened. Perhaps he thought the young punks didn't have what it takes to pull the trigger. However, no one is incapable of anything these days.

Hope he has a full recovery and gets himself a CCW.

 

[Varob]

These kids must have looked very young for him to just casually slap at the gun then go back to work.

 

[clance]

So far, so good. Henry should have fastened both of his hands upon the gun, swept it in a large circle and extracted it thereby from the grip of said assailant. Stepping back, he could have then trained it upon both punks and considered his options from there.

What exactly do you do for a living?

I've been in the security industry for over 32 years now and have done just about everything in the physical side of it ranging from uniform, PI, personal protection, consulting, to running a local company with over 146 employees. Even with my experience I would never recommand a individual that is unskilled and/or unexperience to fight an arm aggressor, much less two. The only exception to this would be if it was obvious that they mean to do you great bodily harm. And trust me, in those situations it's clearly obvious if you don't have your head suck where the sun never shines!

From the author's account of the incident, they only wanted the guy's wallet otherwise they would have just shot him in the back then took the wallet.

The gun in these two hands was nothing more then a tool to intimidate to get their way without a fight, when the author's friend smack the gun away, the perps preceived him as a threat and shot him to end the preceived threat to themselves.

While it is always easier to discuss "What IFs" after the fact. You can alway replace a wallet, credit cards, money, and pictures but you can't a human life. It would've been far better to give the perps what they wanted then to escalate the situation which is what happen.

In the end all is well as long as your still this side of dirt and you continue to taking breaths and be with and do the things you love!

 

[Diggers]

Yeah well I think we also assume that 16 or 17 year old boys aren't going to try to rob us also, so that probably played into the reaction too.

 

[GLOOB]

Well, I disagree. I don't think you can be sure exactly what the aggressor will do. He didn't shoot you in the back? So maybe he wants to shoot someone in the front. Maybe he wants to have your wallet, first, instead of searching your body after the shot has drawn attention. Or maybe the wallet is just an introductory command to test your compliance. The aggressor was a kid. Maybe compliance would boost his confidence, him thinking "that was too easy. What else can we do?" Next, he could tell you to get in the car and start driving... to a quiet place where he'll take your car and dispose of the witness, then come back and empty out your house with the stolen van at his leisure. Or maybe he's a pervert that wants to play with your dead body? Maybe he's a racist and wants to see what it feel slike to shoot you. Once you start complying in this situation, it can get worse from there, quickly, and another opportunity for resistance might not arise.

I know it's unlikely, but it's a possibility. The bottom line is the situation has the potential to get worse. So if given the opportunity, it's best to take control of the situation as soon as possible. If the victim has the knowledge AND confidence to disarm the robber, I think that's exactly the thing to do if ever presented a good opportunity.

Side note: Just the other day I was on a non-gun forum. And a quasi-intellectual was arguing how handguns should be banned because they were instant killing machines. If someone confronted you with a gun, you had to do whatever they say, else you are 100% instantly dead. It didn't matter if you were also armed, because you'd be dead and on your body would be cold before you could even clear leather. This highlights the fact that guns are great self defense tools, but they aren't instant killing machines. When confronted by an aggressor with a gun, you can CHOOSE to do what he says. But you will often have other options. Sometime you can choose to run away, fight back, draw your own gun, or like the guy in this case - just take it as a joke. But in any case, carrying a gun for self defense will give you one more option that could help you escape the situation with your life. There are worse things that could happen then getting shot at. Like being killed. One does not equal the other.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

"Be polite to everyone you encounter, and have a plan to kill them." Don't remember where I read that, but it works for me.

ECS

 

[TexasBill]

I worked with a fellow some years back. He was, and I assume still is, a super nice guy. He was accosted by some punks while out on a date. He gave them his wallet and money and they shot him anyway with a small-caliber pistol. He took a bullet in the throat that miraculously missed the major blood vessels but it took the doctors quite a while to fix him up. The police never did find the shooter.

We live in a fairly nice neighborhood. However, the parking lot of our local grocery store was the scene of a gang shoot-out recently. It was late at night and the store was closed. Fortunately there were no fatalities but four people were transported to hospitals. Unfortunately nobody is cooperating with the sheriff's department.

You just can't be too careful anymore and you can't ever trust punks.

 

[ColdDeadHand]

Sounds painful. Glad he's okay. Sad the crooks are okay, too.

 

[ryanrichmond]

These kids must have looked very young for him to just casually slap at the gun then go back to work.

He said they couldn't been older than 16 or 17. I don't care if you look 12, if you've got a gun in my face and demanding money, I'm not going to think you're kidding.

Also thanks for all the kind wishes guys. Henry is doing much better -- no word on wether or not he started carrying though.

richmond is a tuff town

It used to be worse than it is now. We were ranked on the top 10 deadliest cities in the U.S. at one point...now we're like #57 last i heard. I don't live in the city but I do live in a decent part of town.

 

[Cosmoline]

I think it boils down to this. When someone points a firearm at you and demand cash, it's best to take them at their word and assume you are facing imminent unlawful deadly force. The only proper responses are either fleeing or using deadly force in return. Not non-deadly. Not judo moves unless you really know them well. But everything you have. To assume the attacker is not in earnest is a fatal error.

 

[unwise11]

If an active threat is presented to me
1. I'm at home, I call cops, possibly shoot threat with one of my firearms..
2. If I'm out and about I can't carry, since I'm 14, I try to use my knife, cut the threat.
3. I'm at school, can't be armed.. Punch nose/face, HARD / repeat until threat is KO.

 

[GLOOB]

That's a commonly taught self defense move. If you are not aware of it, you should be - if not to use it yourself, so you'll know how quickly and easily a skilled person can disarm you and tear up your elbow and wrist in the process.

You deflect the gun towards the attacker's weak side, tugging the gun across you while getting inside of arms reach. Then when he reactively pulls his gun hand back, you move the gun up in a small circular motion while twisting, to aid in folding the attacker's elbow. Then you quickly change direction, pushing the gun hand back in and across their same shoulder until ligaments tear. You have to close the gap quickly. This happens up close and personal, at bad breath distances.

If their arm remains straight, sweep in a big circle over your head while stepping in, under the gun. Turn so you're both facing the same direction - you standing in front of the attacker. Throw one arm around and underneath their locked elbow, grab your other forearm of the hand that's still controlling the gun, and exert pressure till the elbow breaks or the gun comes away.

Or if the attacker is much shorter than you and their gun arm remains straight, twist their gun hand to keep their elbow locked, push in and down on the outside of the upper arm with your other hand while pulling their arm forward, spinning the attacker in a circle while taking him face-first to the ground. Put your foot/knee on the back of their shoulder while maintaining control of the gun hand, and if all goes well, the shoulder will dislocate.

In all cases, the key is to get yourself inside of arms reach and to position yourself on the "outside" of the attacker's gun hand to start any move. So if he's right handed, you want to pull the gun to his left as you step in, and you need to pull hard enough to get him off balance while you close the gap.

Oh, gawd. I've watched too many Steven Seagal movies. But in all seriousness, if the attacker was close enough and lax enough to let the guy swat the gun, it is highly likely that a trained individual could have broken his arm and taken the gun away.

 

[Shadow 7D]

My favorite story was when an cop practiced so much on that move, that one day he successfully disarmed a BG, and promptly handed the gun back, just like he had trained himself with his partner...
the Deceased BG's family tried to sue, but the judge said it was an honest mistake, as the BG could have just refused the gun.

Like cosmoline says, if you are caught in white, flat footed, you either act or you don't, in between just gets you killed.

 

[therewolf]

Since my truck got broken into last year, I usually CCW because I'm afraid my

gun will get ripped off, if I leave it in the car.

Yes I have a CWP.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

No place is safe anymore.

In terms of criminal activities, never was. No place is dangerous. It is the people who are dangerous and they freely move in and out of "safe places" freely. What we consider to be "safe" places are simply placed where dangerous people may not opt to spend much time.

In "safe" or "unsafe" places, strangers should be regarded carefully.

The shooting in the OP is rather classic in regard to the responses given by many people to situations and as a result of startle, disbelief, or indecision, they lose critical response time and end up even more disadvantaged. In the case of the OP, disbelief not only lost him time, but also resulted in a wrong response. A lot of folks talk about how fast they can draw a gun or how quickly they can do some sort of self defense move, but all that speed is rather moot if not applied in a timely manner.

Bad things can and do happen to good people in "safe" places. For the life of me, I don't understand why folks think otherwise.