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Front sight: bad advice

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MachIVshooter, Jun 20, 2010.

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  1. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I just emailed them, detailing why I, and I believe most who train, disagree with 9 out of 10 of their "correct answers" in this quiz.

    I'd like to hear what others think. I believe they are doing a disservice, offering personal preferences as general advice.

    My email to them was the following:

    As a long time shooter, collector, hunter and trainer, I have to disagree with the "correct" answers to your online quiz, and will add that providing such misleading information, citing highly subjective criteria as logic, is doing a disservice to those who wish to become proficient vis a vis self defense with a firearm. I will elaborate:

    1) Which of the following handguns would you consider the best for general self defense?

    You suggest that a Glock pistol is the best, citing it's simplicity as the primary reason. This defies logic when the extremely simple double action revolver ranks fourth on your list. Even the best autoloading pistols are inherently less reliable and more complicated to operate than a quality double action revolver. With a DA wheelgun, there is no worry of jams requiring some rap-tap-bang mantra, and no question of whether or not a round is chambered. Load and pull the trigger, the gun will fire. Dud round? No problem, pull the trigger again. It just doesn't get any simpler than that. Hence, the double action revolver is, without question, the best general purpose defensive handgun-especially for those who do not train regularly.

    2) Which gun would you consider the best for immediate general home defense?

    While your expanded answer of "whatever gun is in your hand at the time" is sound advice, you have once again touted the Glock. Fact is that any handgun is a poor choice for self defense when there is a long gun option, as there is in the home. Generally speaking, the shotgun is best. And no, not because of the "horribly intimidating sound of being racked"; The reason is that one round of 12 gauge 2-3/4" #4 buck from a cylinder bore scattergun at 7 yards will put 27 holes in the intruder in a 6"-8" pattern, and is less likely to exit the structure and endanger innocent people than any common handgun round. As well, the 5.56mm NATO, even with ball ammunition, is more effective and still less likely to exit a dwelling than a handgun bullet. In short, if a person can use a shotgun or 5.56mm rifle for defense, they should. Control, and therefore hits, are just plain more easily accomplished with a long arm.

    3) What method do you consider the best for everyday carrying of a concealed handgun?

    The answer you offer for this question happens to be my usual method of carry, but that does not necessarily make it the best. Mode of carry is highly subjective, absolutely dependent on the gun, the person, the attire and the situation. The correct answer is whatever method a person is most comfortable with that properly conceals the weapon and that they have trained to draw from.

    4) On a new defensive handgun, fresh out of the box that seems to be shooting a few inches low at 10 yards, what do you feel is most likely causing the low shots?

    There is not a single right answer to this question. Yes, often times it is the shooter pulling the shots down. But just as often, it is that the gun is either sighted at a different distance, sighted in with a different bullet weight, or both. Correcting this condition is done on a case by case basis.

    5) What should you do if you are “Cross Dominant” and shooting a handgun?

    Your quiz suggests closing the non-dominant eye. I cannot stress how DEAD WRONG that approach is. Defensive handgunning is done with BOTH EYES OPEN! If you close one, you give up peripheral vision and depth perception, both of which are important in a dynamic situation involving firing a gun at a live threat.

    6) What will tend to improve your accuracy with a handgun the most?

    Whatever your “3 secrets” are, at this point, I’m not inclined to believe that they offer much help. The correct answer to this question is practice using correct methods, adapted slightly to suit the individual. We start with a modified weaver stance and stress trigger control and front sight focus, later transitioning to one-handed firing from less-than-ideal positions, hip shooting, etc., since a defensive situation is unlikely to offer time to pull into a practiced position used on a normal range.

    7) What will make you less likely to ever have to use lethal force to defend yourself or your family?

    •A. Being alert and aware of your surroundings
    •B. Being mentally prepared to defend yourself
    •C. Being armed with your gun
    •D. Being skilled with your gun
    •All of the above

    Well, we at least agree on one thing


    8) What handgun would you recommend for a woman who wants to protect herself?

    Once again, you recommend the Glock. And once again, I disagree strongly. Unless she finds it particularly uncomfortable, a small double action (S&W J frame, usually) is the best choice, especially if she does not practice often. Small autoloaders are even more prone to inherent and user-induced malfunctions than a service sized auto. The DA revolver does not care if it is not handled with authority (limp wristed); it will fire when the trigger is pulled every time.

    9) What do you feel is the best handgun caliber for general self defense?

    Guess what? We disagree again. The .45 ACP is a good cartridge. However, it can be difficult to control in a compact defensive handgun, and all the horsepower in the world doesn’t matter if one misses the target, or the gun jams do to impotent handling of the recoil. From a strictly terminal ballistic standpoint, I also disagree, with both the 10mm and .357 Magnum offering substantially better performance than the venerable .45. And, of course, all common handgun cartridges are comparatively ineffective.

    The correct answer to this question is the cartridge that the user can control from the least stable/comfortable firing position (for example, one handed and with the body off kilter). For many shooters, this nixes the heavier recoiling cartridges.

    10) What do you feel is the standard response in using a defensive handgun when you must shoot to defend your life?

    Your quiz gives the correct answer as “With a major caliber handgun, two quick hits to the thoracic cavity”. While not bad advice, per se, we teach to shoot for center mass until the threat ceases to be a threat. That may mean a single poor hit to the leg or some such, or it could mean emptying the magazine into the torso. Stop shooting when the threat ceases is the correct answer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  2. gfpd707

    gfpd707 Member

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    I took the quiz but didnt want to get spammed so I didnt give my email.
     
  3. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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  4. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    You should realize that the entire point of this quiz is to get you to submit your email address to them so you can get can a fantastic free gift and regular emails from patriot millionaire Dr. Ignatius Piazza.
     
  5. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Thanks for posting their "answers".:rolleyes:
    I'm with you, the only one I agreed with was #7. (I didn't necessarily agree with all of yours either, but we all have different views...;)

    Just remember that Front Sights main purpose of the quiz is to get your email address so they can bombard you with drivel to get you to spend your money. (That's why I refused to "apply" for my score.:neener:)
     
  6. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    there doesn't appear to be many truly right or wrong answers.

    however, i'm not giving him/them my name and contact info so i could see my score, so i don't have any idea how well/poorly i did on the quiz.
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Very true. And that is why, in general, I leave my advice to people in the forum of self defense much more open to individual interpretation based on needs and available options.

    These folks have definitely drank the Glock Kool-aid, and are trying to force it down other peoples throats. They also seem to be of the cult who believe that handguns are front line combat weapons, rather than a last resort before knives and fists.

    I do. Doesn't change the fact that they should not be propogating such nonsense. It's a Sunday morning, and I feel that calling them on their BS is more constructive than watching TV. I don't feel like mowing the lawn just yet.
     
  8. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    What Jorg said. I didn't agree with their "answers" either, but found myself inundated with their crappy email alerts and offers until I realized what a come-on the whole deal was/is and unsubscribed.
     
  9. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    I can attest to the e-mail onslaught. :rolleyes: Their marketing and sales practices are offputting to me. They may well provide good training, but you have to wade through a lot of BS to get to it.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    If you feel like correcting things that are ill-advised about that organization ... well ... you could set your sights a bit higher than their quiz. ;)

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=164834
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=429290
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=143885
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501239
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460267
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460707
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=475055

    And so on...

    For a more general view, google has a LOT to share...

    Some people have gone and been really impressed. Pays to know what you're getting into, though. Caveat Shooter!
     
  11. ants

    ants Member

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    I would never give them my email address.
    That's why I gave them yours. :p Just kidding.

    I shot several IPSC matches (and a USPSA 3-gun) with some of the instructors at Front Sight. I cannot judge their employer, but the instructors are top quality people. Not just good shooters, but good people. It would be great to take a course from them under an assumed name to avoid the rest of the FS sales hassle.
     
  12. Gryffydd

    Gryffydd Member

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    When you want to get an email but don't want to deal with the spam just use this site:
    http://mailinator.com/
     
  13. torotoro

    torotoro Member

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    I also took the quiz but did not want to get spammed. I also thought the "three secrets" was too lame.
     
  14. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I disagree that the DA revolver is the best personal defense handgun. I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me, and when a revolver jams, you have to take the gun apart which requires tools, so you are totally out of the game. While semi autos jam more frequently, they generally jam less catastrophically and generally can be unjammed in a matter of seconds.

    I love Glocks, but any semi auto that is generally reliable would be preferable to a revolver, in my opinion.

    I also think some of the worst advice you can give a woman (or anyone who shoots infrequently) is to use a J frame. I have daughters who can handle a 1911 or Glock just fine and shoot well with them. The J frames are light and short barrelled, are hard to control, and are harder to shoot accurately.
     
  15. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The gun you are most proficient and comfortable with is always the best choice.

    However......

    Anything can break. Semi-auto's are not immune. The frequency with which a quality revolver will have a part breakage resulting in gun failure is far, far lower than the likelihood of an autoloader jam.

    I can think of exactly two times when I had a revolver quit working on the range, and one was 100% my fault (not enough crimp on heavy .454 casull loads, bullet jumped crimp and bound the cylinder). The other was a cracked forcing cone on a Ruger security-six. The gun still fired all six, but the cylinder had to be whacked on the bench to open. I could have reloaded and forced it closed, but why?

    I generally carry auto's for defense, primarily because they lay flatter. But I only have a couple that have never jammed, and it's a matter of time before they do. Usually it's not a big deal to get them back into operation, but seconds count in a defensive situation. I've also had them jam up badly enough that they required tools to get running again. Ever dealt with a case head separation? You can do clearing drills all day long, but barring sheer luck of the case half extracting because it stuck on the bullet of a subsequent round, you're done until you can dig it out with a pick or some such. And, of course, I've had parts break in auto's, too. Extractors snapping off is just one common example of an autoloader parts breakage that renders the gun inop.

    It is the sheer simplicity and reliability of the DA wheelgun that gives it top marks as a general purpose defensive tool.

    Can your daughter lean over to where she's almost falling and fire 3 or 4 rounds one-handed from that 1911 without a jam? Defensive shootings are close range; Anyone with a modicum of practice can hit COM of a silhouette at 5 yards consistently with a DAO J-frame. And once again, it will not malfunction from poor recoil management.

    There is nothing wrong with a semi for defense, and that is generally my choice. But they require more practice to be proficient. A DA revolver is just as simple as it comes. No safeties, no question of whether a round is chambered if the gun is loaded and, except for the extremely rare occurance of a true breakage, they will fire when the trigger is pulled.
     
  16. deadin

    deadin Member

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    This is true of any small lightweight gun, revolver or semi-auto.

    If I were to ever convince my wife to carry in her purse, it would have to be a airweight something. She is always complaining that her purse is "Too Heavy". (Usually just when we are doing out the door and already late.)
    She will then root around in it and dump mabe 4 or 5 quarters, several nickles and a few pennies, and say "That's better" and we're on our way.:banghead:
     
  17. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Hard to take it too seriously coming from a school run by a chiropractor who constantly insists that everyone refer to him as "doctor" Piazza. I am glad that my attendance at FS was free.
     
  18. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    [​IMG]
    "And we have a winner!"
     
  19. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Is that Freddie Mercury?
     
  20. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    No, probably not. But I doubt she could hit much with the J frame either. For every point you make about the revolver, there is an equally valid counter-point. I don't see the need to belabor us all with further examples, unless you would like to.

    I just think so much of this is personal preference.
     
  21. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    Somehow I doubt you're going to get them to see things your way. Just a feeling, I guess.
    Yes, the questions are highly subjective. I suspect we will all disagree on many of them, based on experiences etc.
     
  22. Erik M

    Erik M Member

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    they dislike glocks for everything, i agree. they also seem to think a double action J frame is the end all be all of any gun u would need in any situation, i question that.
     
  23. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    That is 180 degrees from what they say.

    They are 100% pro Glock, and seem to hate DA revolvers.

    I'm talking about the gun functioning, not accuracy. Point-shooting from an off-kilter stance requires a good deal of practice with any platform. My point is that a wheelgun does not rely on the shooter being able to control it's recoil well to function. Autos do.

    Case in point, my little sister is 5'7", 135 pounds, very fit, and a very proficient shooter. She carries a P3AT or PF9, competes with an EAA Witness Match 10mm, Colt Delta 10mm and XD-M .40. She even shoots my Desert Eagle .50. Yet she could not control the Taurus PT-145 I had or my S&W CS-45 well enough one-handed to make it function reliably, even with ball ammo. And that has been the case with nearly every female I've had shoot a subcompact .40, .45. or 10mm (and many featherweight 9mm's or .380's) Shooting 2-handed from a stable postion is one thing; Being able to use your weapon in any situation is another. Sometimes no amount of practice will overcome a person's physical limitations.

    Enlighten me.

    I say again, if someone chooses an auto for SD, that's fine. I do. But it should be understood that more practice is necessary to ensure proficiency with a platform that depends more on the shooter for proper function and is more prone to malfunction based on the fact that it depends on both mechanics and physics to operate.
     
  24. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    It's another business pushing a service/product. Why is anyone surprised?
     
  25. Buck Snort

    Buck Snort Member

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    Balrog wrote: "I disagree that the DA revolver is the best personal defense handgun. I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me, and when a revolver jams, you have to take the gun apart which requires tools, so you are totally out of the game. While semi autos jam more frequently, they generally jam less catastrophically and generally can be unjammed in a matter of seconds."

    Might I suggest the "New York reload"?
     
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