Front sight: bad advice

[Balrog]

Enlighten me.

Well I think you already know what you like, so I don't think I am likely to change your mind. I also think that your choice of a DA revolver is not bad, and you are certainly well armed with that. But just for fun, I will take the same situation you posed earlier, and change it a little.

You asked:

Can your daughter lean over to where she's almost falling and fire 3 or 4 rounds one-handed from that 1911 without a jam?

So I will ask:

Can you lean over to where you are almost falling and fire 7 or 8 rounds one handed from your J frame?

If you can do that, you will have changed my mind, and convinced me that you are correct. But getting 8 rounds one handed out of a J frame is going to make for one slow reload.

In the end, most of this ends up being personal choice, and really I don't think any of the guns we are talking about here are bad choices. I think Front Sight is expressing its opinion as if it is fact, and maybe so are the rest of us.

 

[Bubba613]

I guess the question is, why would you need to?

 

[carbuncle]

Has anyone ever actually taken one of these package deals?

Offers Up His Own Money So YOU Get a Free Handgun
Plus 5 Days of Training and a 30 State Concealed Weapons Permit
For Pennies-on-the-Dollar!

This is Such a Fabulous, Never-Before-Offered By Anyone-In-the-Industry Opportunity (and likely never to be offered again) That I Must First Tell You WHY and HOW I Can Offer You So Much For So Little Otherwise You Simply Will Not Believe It!

Sit down when you read this and be prepared to act on it immediately because I am about to offer to you and the first 5,200 who respond the Absolute Greatest Front Sight Course Package Ever!

(5,200 responding seems like a big number, but not when 3 million people PER WEEK search gun training on the Internet and have the opportunity to click on this page... so DON'T DELAY! In fact, over 5,136 people have already taken advantage of this amazing offer... If you are reading this page, you can still get in. If you leave the page you may never get this offer again!

It just sounds so shyster-y that I would never even consider it...

 

[wishin]

I wonder if the free handgun is a Glock?

 

[SpamHandler]

I signed up some time ago (and received the requisite spam). Never again.

I wonder if the free handgun is a Glock?

As I recall, they were offering the XD at the time. However this begs the question. If they are so keen on Glocks, why are the providing an inferior (in their estimation) firearm?

 

[bearcreek]

I'd like to hear from someone who has taken a Front Sight course. A friend of mine took the four day handgun last year and loved it. Now, granted, she was not extremely proficient with handguns to start with so she would not have picked up on some of the "deficiencies" mentioned here but it seemed to be very helpful for her. I hope to be taking a course soon, possibly through a future employer who uses their training.

 

[CZ223]

I will agree that most of the answers are subjective

which of course means that they are more opinion than anyting else. Since Front sight is a highly respected training facility, I put some stock in their opinion. Honestly though, it sounds like the OP just really doesn't like Glocks more than anything else.

 

[oldbear]

I made the mistake of filling out their forms and submitting them, and months later I'm still getting SPAM, that I had never received before.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Well I think you already know what you like, so I don't think I am likely to change your mind. I also think that your choice of a DA revolver is not bad, and you are certainly well armed with that. But just for fun, I will take the same situation you posed earlier, and change it a little.

I've already said at least twice in this thread that I typically carry an autoloader. I know what the advantages and drawbacks are for either platform. You're missing my point completely. That point is that a defensive firearm needs to be controllable by it's wielder under the least ideal circumstances, and for many people, especially females with less hand/wrist strength, that puts a lot of autoloaders out of the running.

 

[shockwave]

I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

In my years of shooting revolvers, not one problem. Ever. I see problems with autos all the time. But this comment is in response to MachIVshooter:

I agree with your post right down the line. Could have written it myself.

The thing with Piazza's school is something I see with point-shooting clinics all the time: Certain training programs are set up in such a way as to favor Glocks. If your style of defense involves throwing out a wall of 48 rounds with certain reload and clearing procedures, you can build a defense system around a Glock.

Thing is, you can do that for revolvers too. My next purchase is going to be a Ruger SR9c, so I'm not opposed to semi-autos for CCW or SD in general. I think it's wise to have both types of firearm to give you options for handling various kinds of threat pictures. If I had to stick with one gun only, it'd be a revolver for its sheer dependability. Squeeze that trigger, it will go bang.

Also, we discuss caliber here all the time, and the jury has never returned a verdict that .45 acp is best. In my own case, I don't like shooting .45s and prefer .357. In a pinch, I know I'd be better able to defend myself with the round I'm best at shooting. The best round is the one you are able to put on target with confidence.

Thanks for posting the results of that "quiz."

 

[General Geoff]

quiz is full of loaded questions and no selectable answers that are correct.

 

[Balrog]

That point is that a defensive firearm needs to be controllable by it's wielder under the least ideal circumstances, and for many people, especially females with less hand/wrist strength, that puts a lot of autoloaders out of the running.

Yes I agree that is an advantage of revolvers. But I think advantages of the auto still make it a better overall choice, assuming someone has had appropriate practice and training.

 

[EddieNFL]

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

Ruger Redhawk .357. Either R-P or W-W factory ammo. less than 50 rounds through the gun. Had to use a wooden hammer handle to open the cylinder. No issues with the ammo. Ruger replaced the indexing pawl and star, as I recall.

S&W M15. Broken hammer spring. Maybe a couple thousand rounds.

 

[BaltimoreBoy]

"assuming someone has had appropriate practice and training. "

That is a big assumption. Most folks in this venue probably do.

But when I have shown firearms to total 'virgins' I have always found that they are more at ease with the DA revolver.

They can see how it works.
They can dry fire repeatedly.
They can immediately grasp how it is loaded and how to tell if it is loaded.

That confidence itself translates into a higher likelyhood of success for the beginner or for someone who gets to the range every three years whether they need the practice or not.

A few months ago there was a cute post by a lady, I think in Arizona. She had heard something go crash in the night. She retrieved her DA revolver. Unwisely, she cocked it for single action fire. Turned out the noise was picture falling off the wall and breaking its glass. She realized then that she did not know how to lower the hammer (other than by discharging). She called the police. They came and a curteous officer showed her how.

She probably should have been more familiar with her weapon. And by now she is. But, if it had been a genuine threat, she would have been able to at least attempt to defend herself. Would that be as likely if she had been holding an autoloader? Personally I don't think so.

 

[Balrog]

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

S&W 686+, probably 4 or 5 yrs old, jammed because the ejector rod got unscrewed a little and locked everything up.

S&W 629, probably 5 yrs old, jammed because the crane somehow got slight bent out of spec, cauing the cylinder to bind.

She probably should have been more familiar with her weapon. And by now she is. But, if it had been a genuine threat, she would have been able to at least attempt to defend herself. Would that be as likely if she had been holding an autoloader? Personally I don't think so.

Well it doesnt matter if she can operate an autoloader or not, since she couldnt even operate her revolver correctly. Maybe she ought to sell the revolver and buy a baseball bat. You certainly dont have to learn how to decock a Glock though. Maybe that is what she needs.

 

[Vonderek]

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

S&W 442 vintage 1994. Had the cylinder bind up tight as a drum. Maybe after total of 1000 rounds of Winchester 130gr FMJ and maybe 50 rounds of standard pressure 125 gr Federal Nyclad (the old stuff). Could not open nor would trigger depress. Done. Paper weight. Game over. Sent back to S&W for repair...new hand and what else I don't remember. After repair no more problems and is EDC.

S&W 13-2 3" vintage 1972. Bought LNIB. First range session repeat of cylinder lockup. Done again. Don't remember what brand factory ammo. Took home and took apart. Thoroughly cleaned but since it was LNIB was not dirty (no...no crud under star extractor). Reassemmbled and works again. Ghost in the machine. Safe Queen.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I agree with some of the frontsight answers and disagree with others. I agree with some of yours and disagree on others. The longer you've been shooting and the more training you have, the more likely you have your own opinions. What I like about this "test" is it generates discussions.

Also, for a beginner shooter who doesn't know much of anything, his answers as well as what they teach (I've been out there) provides good advice and good solid training. I may not agree with everything but I don't think he is teaching anything that is too contraversial.

For example, I'm cross eyed dominate. I think it's ok to close one eye. My rational and that which I've heard from some trainers is that in a real defensive situation, you are most likely going to get tunnel vision anyway so don't worry about if you need to close one eye. You likely won't be able to hear your partner standing right next to you. Is this right or wrong or should I keep both eyes open? Its open to debate. For me, I've decided I'm going to close one eye.

 

[Forklift352]

My take...FWIW...Is that the assumption is one WOULD practise because one went
to FrontSight.So with that in mind a person who has Front sight training AND joins
a range AND practise's....a Glock is a fine choice for the reason's stated.

Remember when he was pimp'in his school with a free gun it was an XD.....not a Glock.
So their must be some nugget of truth to his statements.

I dont own a Glock because...well....most people drink the Glock kool-aid.
And I like to be different.

 

[Skylerbone]

OK, I gave my email, got 10 "secrets" from the four-gun master, an offer for a $1300 course that included a FREE $800 XD ($500 local price after mark up), got offers for a $1000 lifetime membership, an offer for a two for one $1500 lifetime membership to share with a family member, another secret: there were not ten but (if I remember right) 21 secrets which I'm still receiving, an offer for "foreclosed" lifetime memberships (people who didn't pay their monthly payments on a membership), warnings that x number of guns are left ACT QUICKLY!

While they may give descent training, the marketing wheel is in full rotation at FrontSight and if I choose in the future to pay for training it will be from somewhere that does not hype themselves in a circus like format.

I'm still waiting for Vince the ShamWow! Guy to show up in DC Piazza's email testimonials.

 

[gym]

I got 100% knowing this is a marketing ploy and means very little other than to get your money. Another guy trying to make a buck.

 

[Nushif]

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

Ruger LCR, one year old (max), Off the shelf ammo, Failure was dented ammunition that bound up the cylinder.

 

[2000Yards]

I'd like to hear from someone who has taken a Front Sight course. A friend of mine took the four day handgun last year and loved it. Now, granted, she was not extremely proficient with handguns to start with so she would not have picked up on some of the "deficiencies" mentioned here but it seemed to be very helpful for her. I hope to be taking a course soon, possibly through a future employer who uses their training.

I've been there and I'm a member able to take as many of their courses as I want that are in my package (I don't currently recall what it is). Their marketing is very used-car salesmanish (no offense to profesional facilitators (salesman) of pre-owned vehicles intended), but they have some excellent, excellent instructors. Not all of them are so, as with any institution.

I heard all the doom-and-gloom predictors five years ago when I signed up (and indeed those predictions had already been going on for a long time at that point), about how the school would close, so and so in the "community" hated Piazza, lawsuits, land theft, etc. I was able to put that aside because a fairly large contingent of shooters (about a dozen that I know of) in my area attend courses at FS, every year, over and over, and love it. Same with me now.

As to value, I went with a very conservative program (I don't have access to all the courses, but I also paid a lot less for my membership) and I've easily spent under $100/day of training. Of course travel, boarding and ammo I count separately.

2KYDS

 

[Dravur]

Front Sight....

Like Amway, except with Guns!

 

[winchester '97]

So you all are supprised that a guy who has a deal with Glock is pushing their product?

 

[Skylerbone]

He has a deal with Springfield (or at least he gets a volume discount). I wonder how he places his order for 5000 guns in advance and knows what caliber everyone will choose?).