Frustrating

[Doug.38PR]

Saturday I went to the gun range with my OP and DS. Just about all my shooting this day was with SA and in the dueling stance of one hand.

Many days I can go to a range and at 7-14 yards plant the bullets right where I am aiming with a fine grouping. Other days, I go in and will have good groupings...but my shots will be a little high and other days they might be a little to the left.

I have no doubt that if I was shooting at a man at that distance he would die.

But my eye sees the sight lined up as it should be with the target. There is no bobbling of the sights. The shot should land where it is placed. But sometimes it is off.

At one point Saturday I did do a semi Weaver stance (with the gun arm completely straight) and that change in postion put everything in place. I went back to dueling stance and it was shooting to the left again. then pulled up a stool and sat down resting my elbows on shooting station and took careful aim with both hands supporting the gun. BULLSEYE! I went back to dueling and it was to the left again. I triend the semi Weaver stance again and......it was still shooting to the left.

Sometimes it would be shooting to the lower left instead of left but the groupings would always be consistant. 6 here and 6 there.

Any thoughts? What could I be doing wrong. Could my eye postion or the way my head is cocked or the fact that I wear contact lenses affect shot placement? I feel like my eyes are fooling me somehow.

These problems happen on a session by session basis not from shooting moment to moment. One day I go in and do great at any distance. Another I go in and get consistant groupings...but just a little off one way or the other (consistantly throughout the shooting session)

 

[Ryder]

Grip variability? Point of impact can change if you don't grip it constantly each time.

You might want to check your sights are not wandering on you. Had a loose rear sight once that had me really worried until I figured it out.

 

[Oldtimer]

HMM! What jumped out to me was, in your own words, you were using a "semi-Weaver" stance, and your "shooting arm was in place".

Is there such a thing as a "semi-Weaver" stance? You probably meant a "modified" Weaver stance.

Secondly, your "shooting arm was in place"! Now, EXACTLY what does THAT mean? In the Weaver AND isocylese stances/holds, the "shooting arm" is to be straight, with the elbow LOCKED out straight! Perhaps you are "limp-elbowing" a bit? If so, then you just might be "limp-wristing" without even realizing it!

I'd suggest that you have a knowledgeable and reliable shooting buddy monitor your shooting techniques, and give you an honest evaluation. We ALL pick up bad habits at one time or another, without realizing it, so it shouldn't be looked upon as a "demeaning" thing if someone else notes that you're doing something incorrect! Take their evaluation to heart, do something to correct the problem, and thank them for their assistance. Go one step further by monitoring THEIR shooting, which will also enhance your OWN technique!

Lastly, check your ammo! Instead of thinking that "ammo is ammo", one particular brand/load WILL give you the best performance. If you mix rounds for practise, the differences between the recoil and velocities WILL give you wider groups. Just be sure to use all of the "basics" of shooting when you practise, and when you're concerned about "pin-point accuracy", make sure that it's the ammo that your handgun likes to "eat" the best!

 

[shooter503]

Doug,

You must isolate what is causing the problem and you may need to get very basic. Unless you work systematically you will maintain this confusing situation.

First thing to eliminate is ammunition and firearm mechanical problems. Use the same type of good quality ammunition for all testing. When your shots go wild sit down at a bench rest of some type and repeat the exercise. Does bench resting consistently solve the accuracy problem? If it does then you have a technique problem. If bench resting does not help you probably have a firearm problem.

Let's assume you feel you have a technique, or perhaps eyesight, problem. Shoot using one technique only. A classic stance with two handed grip would be best. Use a medium range, the classic 21 feet would be fine. (The "duelling stance" is not good for consistency without a lot of training.). Can you now produce a consistent performance? This brings us up to the situation you mentioned in your post but hopefully we have eliminated any possible un-noticed problems on the way.

Shots striking left and lower left generally indicate a "jerked" trigger pull. I can't tell from your post what firearm you are using but the condition of the trigger pull may be a factor. I would look in the following areas.

Unconcious jerking of the trigger. Try more dry firing. Use consistent technique until problem is solved.

Examine firearm trigger operation.

Get help from an experienced instructor.

Get a nice little target 22 with a good trigger pull and practice with this until you have the problem under control.

If you think it might help perform wrist/hand strengthening exercises. Those special "squeezy" spring grips help but a medium size hardware store spring clamp will also work.

You mention eye correction. The correction should allow you to see the sights clearly even if the target is blurred. This is important - the correction must be this way around.

 

[Doug.38PR]

Secondly, your "shooting arm was in place"! Now, EXACTLY what does THAT mean? In the Weaver AND isocylese stances/holds, the "shooting arm" is to be straight, with the elbow LOCKED out straight! Perhaps you are "limp-elbowing" a bit? If so, then you just might be "limp-wristing" without even realizing it!

Hmm. Now that's what I originally thought the Weaver actually was. Then someone on one of these forums ask what the Weaver stance was and someone showed pictures and it had 3 men lined up, 2 with the shooting arm extended, but not completely straight with the left arm folded in and it's hand resisting the gun hand and 1 man doing the same thing only his shooting arm was straight (which the poster said was odd and somebody doing their own thing) That's what I do, hence at that point I started refering to it as a semi-Weaver stance. Apparently from what you say, the other two men had it wrong and the one had it right.

I am trying new variations of holding the gun. I used to shoot primarily like this in both DA and SA, dueling and weaver stance

Recently, I started holding the gun in the way indicated in this Colt illustration.

See the index finger and thumb differences.

Sorry the second is so blurry. Cell phone camera resolution isn't what it was when I took the first picture a year ago

 

[GEM]

Get a good revolver shooter/instructor to watch you. That's the best. They will pick up things you never even are aware of.

I found that Tom Givens picked up something that was plaguing my shooting for years.

Self-diagnosis is difficult as there are things you do that you are not consciously aware of.

 

[CornCod]

Neurological

Of course there are other elements to be considered. Were you well rested? Did you have a couple beers last night? How was your mood? I think there psychological and neurological factors are significant in practical accuracy.

 

[WolfMansDad]

How long have you been shooting? I had similar experiences for about a year after I started shooting air pistols in competition. Some days I was very consistent, others I was all over the map. Also, point of impact did seem to shift for no apparent reason. It was very frustrating, but as time went on I had fewer and fewer bad sessions.

As in shotgun shooting, don't get hung up on a bad shot, or even a bad day. Instruction helps to some degree, but if you just get out and shoot to have fun, you will probably settle down after a few months.

 

[Doug.38PR]

no beers. felt okay. never thought about how I felt at the gun range, just that I wanted to go shoot.



I've been shootng for about 3 or 4 years now.

This is likely NEVER to happen, even less likely that I will ever need the gun, but if a bad guy is holding my mother or my girlfriend or anyone else hostage as a shield, I want to know that I have the capablity to plant one right through the corona of his right eye if I want. (granted I would be a lot more tense in an encounter with a BG than with a piece of paper, but still the knowledge that I have the capability helps)