Full Auto Question

[hksw]

Upon reading the post concerning the AR15/M16, another question had popped into my head.

If an originally semi-auto AR15 were legally modified to full auto with a registered sear, then the internals were taken out and the gun reverted back to semi, would it be legal to sell the reverted AR15 (the semi gun only, the registered sear not transferred) as a regular run of the mill semi-auto AR15 (despite its modifications)?

 

[Number 6]

No, once a gun is made into a machine gun it is from that point on considered a machine gun despite any modifications.

 

[Outlaws]

If an originally semi-auto AR15 were legally modified to full auto with a registered sear, then the internals were taken out and the gun reverted back to semi, would it be legal to sell the reverted AR15 (the semi gun only, the registered sear not transferred) as a regular run of the mill semi-auto AR15 (despite its modifications)?

Yes. A registered drop in auto sear is the "machine gun", the actual receiver is not registered. That sear can be used in any AR.

No, once a gun is made into a machine gun it is from that point on considered a machine gun despite any modifications.

That would be correct if the receiver was the registered piece, but the OP is talking about an RDIAS.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Possibly legal--but I would be very warry of such a former 'host' gun that had machining done. More people are becoming educated about what to look for in the LE community because more and more are trained on AR varriants. In other words, it would be likely more easily noticed as a modified weapon by more people. It depends really on your own perspective and what concerns you. For me, I'd rather not play 20 questions for the bargin on a 2nd hand AR. I'd ask ATF for advice before spending the $$$--after all, that's what they do, right?

 

[Hoppy590]

as Outlaws said, the drop in sear is the registered MG in this case.

there are some AK drop in sears, that once in the gun, made the gun itself a MG. those MAY NOT be removed.

 

[TexasRifleman]

With RDIAS sure, it's done all the time. Same with RLLs. The host is only a "machinegun" when the registered part is installed. If the lower needed any holes drilled or machine work done, all bets are off.

Also remember that while the sear or LL is in the host the host is an MG, and can have auto fire control parts, short barrels, etc. As soon as the registered device comes out all that other stuff has to go away too.

 

[M2 Carbine]

As soon as the registered device comes out all that other stuff has to go away too.

Yes and no. Depends on the gun.

I know this thread is about the AR but I thought I'd just throw this in.

Like the AR FA sear could be registered and is legally a machine gun, M2 Carbine parts could be registered and are the machine gun.

The difference from the AR is many M1 Carbines contain M2 parts, slide, hammer, M2 trigger housing, etc, and this is considered normal.
So, if a registered M2 "Conversion kit" is temporally installed in a M1, ALL the M2 parts must be in the rifle for it to operate as a select fire M2.

When the M2 Conversion kit is removed the rifle can still contain a bunch of M2 Carbine parts.

The parts that you don't want to have in your position unless you have a registered M2 Carbine or Conversion kit are the Disconnecter, Selector & spring. These parts have nothing to do with a M1's operation. All the other M2 parts can and may be installed in place of M1 parts.

Personally I wouldn't want to have any FA parts in my AR's.
In years past I read of the BATF making cases against AR owners for having a FA (M16) part in their AR, which in no way made the rifle FA.

 

[Outlaws]

Personally I wouldn't want to have any FA parts in my AR's.
In years past I read of the BATF making cases against AR owners for having a FA (M16) part in their AR, which in no way made the rifle FA.

Colt doesn't seem to be having an issue, neither the people who buy them. A lot of Colt AR's are being shipped with M16 bolt carrier groups.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Colt doesn't seem to be having an issue, neither the people who buy them. A lot of Colt AR's are being shipped with M16 bolt carrier groups.

I suppose if it's factory installed the ATF would have a hard time making a case.

My Colt is about 25 years old. I'd be reluctant to replace anything in it with M16 parts.

I don't remember if the BATF actually won those BS cases in court but win or lose they have won by making the people probably spending their life savings defending themselves.

 

[hksw]

Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[TreyNC]

O.K., so then my question is if one wanted to legally obtain say a M16, could one purchase a DIAS cheaper than the +-16K for an already auto M16?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Maybe. A RDIAS is going to cost you 12-14 grand too though.

Junky old RLLs are going for over 10 (thats what I have).

There are no bargains in M16/AR land.

Maybe a nice AC556

 

[Chipperman]

could one purchase a DIAS cheaper than the +-16K for an already auto M16?

You can find a Registered Receiver M16 (non-Colt) for about $11k. Colts are going for more like $14k and up, depending on the model.

 

[Zach S]

As stated already, the RDIAS or RLL is the registered MG, and can be moved from one AR to another.

Another cool thing is that with the RDIAS or RLL, you can put an 11.5" upper on the host weapon and it be legal, as long as the 16+ upper is back on it when the RDIAS/RLL comes out.

Someone at arfcom went ahead an registered his two host weapons as SBRs anyway. One was an 11.5" 5.56, the other a 10" 9mm. Probably not uncommon for those who move the RDIAS or LL from one gun to another.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Probably not uncommon for those who move the RDIAS or LL from one gun to another.

Yeah I thought about it but it doesn't work well with LLs. They have timing and setup issues that make them difficult to move. It's more trouble than its worth.

Would be great with a DIAS I suppose.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

O.K., so then my question is if one wanted to legally obtain say a M16, could one purchase a DIAS cheaper than the +-16K for an already auto M16?

You can get a registered M16 receiver which IIRC don't use a "drop in auto-sear", for less than the cost of a drop in auto sear usually (although you can't change lower receivers like with the sear, so you are shooting a 22+ year old receiver, don't hurt it). The days of cheap M16s are gone unless the registry gets reopened (while visions of $200 auto sears dance in our heads).

 

[Firepower!]

you need to seek advice from a lawyer expert on fire arms issue.