Full auto weapons in the US

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Nick_90

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Dear Friends,

Living in Switzerland, I can't understand why full auto weapons are so expensive and scarce in the US (or at least in certain States).
I have heard many different explanations (taxes etc.) but none from knowledgeable people. Could someone explain to me in a few words why the price is so high and how the taxes or whatever are calculated?

Thanks in advance,

Nick
 
Supply and demand.

The supply was frozen in 1986 (1987?) as part of a poison pill amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act, but the demand grows every year.
 
Short answer:
Tax is $200. A pittance.
In 1986 it was made illegal to register a new machinegun to a civillian. So we are stuck with whatever was registered before then. Supply and demand.
 
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The first thing that happened was the National Firearms Act of 1934, which registered every full auto in the country, and imposed a $200.00 transfer tax. The premier gun at the time this was really aimed at was the Thompson submachinegun, which was available on the market for $200 dollars, an incredible price for a gun at the time.
Some states outright ban ownership.
In 1987 the Volkmer-McClure "Gun Owner's Protection Act" was passed. A amendment stuck on at the last minute prohibited ordinary citizens from owning any full auto made after 1987.
All of this limits the market to a finite limited number, which raises the price of the commodity.
 
Grüetzi

Glückliche Schweiz! The government trust their citizens. This is why it works out that 4 nationalities can live together in peace (and it's a small country, too - makes it working, perhaps).

As the oldest existing democracy I just hope it will stay this way.

As far as I know, the Swiss don't have an army (besides officers) but a militia, with everyone 18 to 50 years old is participating, having their infantry guns in the cabinet along with the ammo.

This huge country tries to prevent crimes with restricting full auto weapons and some states introduced a lot of other laws, but failed badly. Criminals will always have the most intimidating things.

Thus, if you want to have something "auto" you have to be VERY rich ($15,000.00 and up for autos).

Mr. Dillon of the Dillon reloading stuff even has a 4-barrel anti-aircraft cannon. He has to reload a lot...

Hope you'll have a mild winter in the valleys

Rob
 
Since 1934, there is a 200 dollar tax and registration. It was once a major barrier, but inflation has mooted it.

Since 1986, there is a ban on registering newly manufactured machine guns.
The supply has shrunk as wealthy collectors accumulate and retain more of them over time. The increased price makes them a good investment.
The demand has grown due to population increases, generally increased interest in firearms and the artificial scarcity that makes them hold value well.

There are also several states that ban them outright, but most states have almost no regulation of machine guns.

Lifting or overturning the "86 ban" (18 USC 922(o)) would probably flood the market with new manufacture MGs due to the enormous pent-up demand. After about a year it would probably taper off.
 
According to the Firearms Commerce Report from 2001/2002 there are only 278,958 registered machine guns in the U.S. - a fixed number that can't increase due to legislation.

The tax is a flat $200 tax per item for each transfer.
 
Oh man - it would be great if the MG clause of the FOPA was repealed.

M16s for AR-15 price + $10
$1000 MACs
$700 GLOCK 18s

Man.....
 
you know, I honestly wonder if the demand for MGs is really that great, or if dealers just say that it is so that they can charge an arm and a leg for an MG. I seriously don't know many people who would really consider buying an MG. I mean, many people say, "oh yeah that'd be great" but I seldom see people going into stores asking, "Excuse me, do you sell machineguns?" Don't get me wrong, I love the things, but I don't think most people really consider buying one.

I still think the '86 law is unconstitutional either way.
 
Demand may not be that great but neither is supply. Prices are high simply because there is no other source for the weapons.
 
you know, I honestly wonder if the demand for MGs is really that great, or if dealers just say that it is so that they can charge an arm and a leg for an MG. I seriously don't know many people who would really consider buying an MG. I mean, many people say, "oh yeah that'd be great" but I seldom see people going into stores asking, "Excuse me, do you sell machineguns?" Don't get me wrong, I love the things, but I don't think most people really consider buying one.
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If you want to get an idea of the current demand for MG's, sign up on Bowers or Sturmgewhr.com or one of the MG boards and hang out in the For Sale section. Pretty much ANYTHING that is priced near the low end of the market rate goes very, very quickly. Cherry examples of more desirible guns, such as Thompsons, go pretty quickly even when they are priced very high.

I think there's quite a bit of demand for MG's when compared to the fixed supply. That's why prices keep going up. More and more people chasing a limited number of guns.

I don't know how much demand there would be among the general shooting population if the '86 manufacture ban was lifted, but I think more people would be interested then you'd imagine once they realized they could actually own a MG. I'm still surprised how many gun owners I know who don't know that civilians can own MG's at all.
 
Demand for MG's and SMG's is pretty high. With the current supply 'fixed' and more people wanting them, prices will only go up...barring some change in current laws. As Trebor said, if anything is near what is considered a good price it'll fly off the boards he mentioned...sometimes within minutes.

A lot of the Class 3 dealers also do a pretty brisk business in suppressors as well...and several have commented that this portion of their business seems to be picking up as more and more people find out that it's not that difficult to obtain NFA items.
 
you know, I honestly wonder if the demand for MGs is really that great, or if dealers just say that it is so that they can charge an arm and a leg for an MG. I seriously don't know many people who would really consider buying an MG. I mean, many people say, "oh yeah that'd be great" but I seldom see people going into stores asking, "Excuse me, do you sell machineguns?" Don't get me wrong, I love the things, but I don't think most people really consider buying one.
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I would like to purchase an AR-15 type weapon for home/homeland defense purposes. If buying the m-16/m-4 select fire version for a similar price was an option I would be all over it. The only reason the price is inflated (or totally unavailable in this case) is because of the '86 unconstitutional ban. I am sure there are many others that would agree with this.
 
Has any gun organization ever challegened this or tried to get it repealed in recent times? I imagine if some people get bent out of shape about 'scary' looking guns, they would really hate the notion of reapealing a MG ban.
 
Not to mention that working to repeal the MG ban would put them on the defensive, and we could "compromise" by, say, allowing import of "assault" weapons and steel core milsurp ammo again. Then we can do it all again next year, but this "compromise" would be for something else. If we keep them on their toes, maybe they won't have the time to strike at us.
 
Here's the deal:

1934- Machineguns regulated FEDERALLY under National Firearms Act w/ taxes, permits, stamps, ect.

October 1968- Foreign made machineguns prohibited from importation wiith passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968

May 1986- A watered down Firearm Owners Protection Act was passed by the Democrat controlled House of Represenatives. The NRA backed version passed the Republican controlled Senate without any silly amendments. The Democrat House version won out because the Rodino et al in the House would not agree to the NRA backed Senate version. The NRA version in the House was discharged to the floor but the leadership brought up their version
instead (they wanted NO BILL) to head off the NRA bill.

The machinegun freeze was added to the bill last minute.
 
Has any gun organization ever challegened this or tried to get it repealed in recent times?
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Both houses of Congress and the White House are controlled by the Republicans and the Supreme Court has been stacked with conservative judges. If that can't get the 1986 ban repealed, nothing ever will. It's set in concrete until hell freezes over. I will despise Charlie Rangel until the day he dies over the dispicable way he snuck the Hughes amendment through the House. And I won't even start on the BATF's "interpretation" of the amendment.

While the liberals and conservatives may differ a bit on social and military issues, when it comes to placing limits on the rights of law abidding citizens there isn't much difference between them.
 
Yeah, but is anyone pushing for it? The "BATFE Reform Bill" is in the house right now, couldn't a legislator add something to it last minute reversing the machine gun ban just like the Democrats did?
 
The legislature isnt filled with conservatives. The senate especially is filled with republicans that could be called RINOs at best. Look at the GOA senate rankings. There are a ton of Fs there. Only a few A's and B's. The Dems are packed solid with Fs and Ds.

The SCOTUS is NOT stacked with conservatives. There are currently 3 justices that are 100 percent bets to back RKBA. Roberts is an 80 percent bet in favor. The others are against us. Souter, Breyer and Stephens are authoritarian socialists and I would say are safe bets against. Ginsburg tends to be slightly libertarian in her leanings but has said some anti-gun things in speeches so I would give her a 20 percent chance of siding with us. Kennedy is supposedly conservative, but hardly a stalwart. I give him a 30 percent chance of siding with us. Those arent good odds, but who knows what the supremes will have for breakfast before they hear the case.

The lower federal judiciary has more conservatives than average, but even that is very far from what could be called a genuine stacking.

In short, the 86 ban can be brought down, we just have a lot of work ahead of us. We need:
-increased publicity for MG use as a sport to increase interest
-increase public interest in shooting sports in general
-continue to fight the fight against gun grabbers federally and locally in all three branches.
 
According to the Firearms Commerce Report from 2001/2002 there are only 278,958 registered machine guns in the U.S. - a fixed number that can't increase due to legislation.
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Not exactly true. The number of registered machine guns increases all the time; they're just post-samples that can't be transferred to the general public. The 278,958 figure you quoted includes post-samples, the number of transferrables is around 100,000-150,000.
 
beerslurpy: In short, the 86 ban can be brought down, we just have a lot of work ahead of us. We need:
-increased publicity for MG use as a sport to increase interest
-increase public interest in shooting sports in general
-continue to fight the fight against gun grabbers federally and locally in all three branches.
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You forgot the most important part

The Entire Pro-2A Community need to Unite and Organize on the issue.
as things stand we have to many turncoats, and to many who just wont bother to do anything, Until we can do that, the rest is just a Fart in a Cat 5 Hurricane.
 
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