Full scale RIOT at Indiana Prison (video)
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Armoredman
I've been a cop for seven years and just recently returned to the road after three years as a detective. During that time I made several trips to our local state prison to interview convicts. I was given a tour of Cell Block B where the state keeps the deat row guys and the most violent cons to include a few civil commitments (i.e. truly whacko and out of control). Tough job. Those cons in B are a combination of murderous animals and whiney babies.
Recently I've begun to experience the situation involving the ex-con who I helped send to prison several years ago seeing me in public with my family. I was told it would take between six to eight years for this to start happening and now it is. Like you I go armed 24/7 now. Even my wife has changed her tune about that.
And no for all you cop bashers I am not anti-ccw.
I've been a cop for seven years and just recently returned to the road after three years as a detective. During that time I made several trips to our local state prison to interview convicts. I was given a tour of Cell Block B where the state keeps the deat row guys and the most violent cons to include a few civil commitments (i.e. truly whacko and out of control). Tough job. Those cons in B are a combination of murderous animals and whiney babies.
Recently I've begun to experience the situation involving the ex-con who I helped send to prison several years ago seeing me in public with my family. I was told it would take between six to eight years for this to start happening and now it is. Like you I go armed 24/7 now. Even my wife has changed her tune about that.
And no for all you cop bashers I am not anti-ccw.
LaEscopeta
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armoredman, Great, balanced summary of the corrections “business” Thanks.
Checkman, being I cop I have a few questions if you don't mind answering them; mostly I think they may be myths perpetuated by people who want to make our prison system look extremely cruel:
1. Do they house fairly minor, non-violent offenders with murderers and rapists? (like someone going in for possession of marijuana, or a kid who takes a car for a joyride (not a carjacker, but someone who hotwires it when no one is around))
2. Is it fairly common that gaurds beat up inmates? (someone was trying to tell me the other day that its not uncommon for gaurds to continue to punch or kick or in other ways hit someone after they are already subdued)
3. Do the police keep a watchful eye out to make sure that guards treat people humanely? or is it administrators that do that?
I'm not saying I believe these things, I've just never even been in a prison (although I will probably have to considering I am studying to be a lawyer, I am currently in about to enter last year of pre-law Poli-Sci, I'll graduate from that next spring.) and was hoping you could clear up why some people perpetuate these ideas (I mean I'm sure guards being cruel has happened at some point but I doubt its that frequent, I mean why would you want to have to go through all the bother of the paperwork of why someone was injured if they are really easily subdued; just doesn't make sense in most cases).
1. Do they house fairly minor, non-violent offenders with murderers and rapists? (like someone going in for possession of marijuana, or a kid who takes a car for a joyride (not a carjacker, but someone who hotwires it when no one is around))
2. Is it fairly common that gaurds beat up inmates? (someone was trying to tell me the other day that its not uncommon for gaurds to continue to punch or kick or in other ways hit someone after they are already subdued)
3. Do the police keep a watchful eye out to make sure that guards treat people humanely? or is it administrators that do that?
I'm not saying I believe these things, I've just never even been in a prison (although I will probably have to considering I am studying to be a lawyer, I am currently in about to enter last year of pre-law Poli-Sci, I'll graduate from that next spring.) and was hoping you could clear up why some people perpetuate these ideas (I mean I'm sure guards being cruel has happened at some point but I doubt its that frequent, I mean why would you want to have to go through all the bother of the paperwork of why someone was injured if they are really easily subdued; just doesn't make sense in most cases).
I recommend putting some high powered pumps and fire hoses in the towers. If the temperature is below 60º, just being wet can take the fun out of a riot. Otherwise, being knocked on your rear six times in 45 seconds is a drag also.
Plus, they can douse those burning mattresses.
Plus, they can douse those burning mattresses.
armoredman
Member
NM234, contact your local DOC and ask for a tour, or when the next oneis going through. You will be required to submit your SSN, etc, for clearance.
As for your housing questions, I have no idea how your local DOC does it, but we use an extensive classification process based on two overall factors - Insitutional Risk, and Public Risk, resulting in what we call a P and I score. Many factors are used, (I have never worked Programs, so I couldn't tell you what factors they are, but I think it's available on our public website), then score of 1-5, 5 being the worst, is used to determine where an inmate is incarcerated. Other factors are also used now, including age, violent/non violent crime, etc, in housing in cells. Also, sex offenders are segregated from others. So, on my yard, I have thugs who are also rapists, but on a GP yard they're just thugs. Mostly murderers are in higher custody units, but some leak down to us, due to one factor or another. A new classification system in being worked in, to help avoid another Lewis tower incident.
Once again, we are not "guards". And, no, officers are not allowed to "beat up" on inmates. I personally know a LT who self-demoted to inmate for that. Uses of force are strictly controlled, taped, reviewed, etc. Any planned use of force, cell extraction, etc, has to have approval from the top before moving in...all because of liberal lawyers and lawsuits. I have seen good staff injured because they didn't want to get sued for a use of force. We always have theright of self defense, but assault on inmates is a huge no-no, and WILL result in criminal prosecution.
Last, police keep no eye on us - they don't come in. We are the law enforcement inside the walls. In many states COs are LEOs. PD don't like coming inside, surrounded by convicted felons, approx, at my yard, 33.5 to one, unarmed. That's OK, I wouldn't like thier job. At least, in here, the teams are clearly defined. PD rarely enters farther than the sally port/intake, dropping off or picking up for county jails/new warrants.
We do have our version of Internal Affairs, known as CIU, who takes care of staff investigations. They have full arrest powers, and have been known to remove bad staff in cuffs.
I hope that explains more. I see your view of COs is inspired by depictions like that of Walker:Texas Ranger, where we are either stupid, corrupt, or both. The reality is far more boring.
As for your housing questions, I have no idea how your local DOC does it, but we use an extensive classification process based on two overall factors - Insitutional Risk, and Public Risk, resulting in what we call a P and I score. Many factors are used, (I have never worked Programs, so I couldn't tell you what factors they are, but I think it's available on our public website), then score of 1-5, 5 being the worst, is used to determine where an inmate is incarcerated. Other factors are also used now, including age, violent/non violent crime, etc, in housing in cells. Also, sex offenders are segregated from others. So, on my yard, I have thugs who are also rapists, but on a GP yard they're just thugs. Mostly murderers are in higher custody units, but some leak down to us, due to one factor or another. A new classification system in being worked in, to help avoid another Lewis tower incident.
Once again, we are not "guards". And, no, officers are not allowed to "beat up" on inmates. I personally know a LT who self-demoted to inmate for that. Uses of force are strictly controlled, taped, reviewed, etc. Any planned use of force, cell extraction, etc, has to have approval from the top before moving in...all because of liberal lawyers and lawsuits. I have seen good staff injured because they didn't want to get sued for a use of force. We always have theright of self defense, but assault on inmates is a huge no-no, and WILL result in criminal prosecution.
Last, police keep no eye on us - they don't come in. We are the law enforcement inside the walls. In many states COs are LEOs. PD don't like coming inside, surrounded by convicted felons, approx, at my yard, 33.5 to one, unarmed. That's OK, I wouldn't like thier job. At least, in here, the teams are clearly defined. PD rarely enters farther than the sally port/intake, dropping off or picking up for county jails/new warrants.
We do have our version of Internal Affairs, known as CIU, who takes care of staff investigations. They have full arrest powers, and have been known to remove bad staff in cuffs.
I hope that explains more. I see your view of COs is inspired by depictions like that of Walker:Texas Ranger, where we are either stupid, corrupt, or both. The reality is far more boring.
As a cop I don't act as a watchdog over Correction Officers. At my level the county jail is run by the Sheriff Department. Deputies act as jailers. I'm a city cop and I don't overwatch the deputies either. Internal invetigations are handled by the sheriff department or an outside agency - typically the state.Who investigates the state corrections officers? Beats Me. I suppose if the charges are severe enough it would be the Feds, but I don't know.
However my limited experience has been that CO's and deputies treat the prisoners humanely. Juvenille offenders - even those being charged as adults are incarcerated in the Juvenille Detention Center. They have their own JCO's and those folks work under an entirely different set of rules. Juvenille detention is a very strange world.
I've never seen any abuse though I've arrested ex-cons who will gladly tell me all kind of horror stories about the officers in prison. I usually take their tales with a huge grain of salt.
We have many ex-CO's on my department, but we've also had a few guys go to work for the Department of Corrections in both Idaho and Oregon.
However my limited experience has been that CO's and deputies treat the prisoners humanely. Juvenille offenders - even those being charged as adults are incarcerated in the Juvenille Detention Center. They have their own JCO's and those folks work under an entirely different set of rules. Juvenille detention is a very strange world.
I've never seen any abuse though I've arrested ex-cons who will gladly tell me all kind of horror stories about the officers in prison. I usually take their tales with a huge grain of salt.
We have many ex-CO's on my department, but we've also had a few guys go to work for the Department of Corrections in both Idaho and Oregon.
Gosh, It's almost like they are being punished, huh?
Didn't these guys sign some sort of agreement with the cops and courts, that if caught and convicted of one or more felonies, that they would never be transferred farther away than what was convenient for them and their families?
No!?!?
Then tough. I refuse to feel sorry for a bunch of criminals who tear up property because they have it half as bad as the troops in Iraq, brooght on by their own bad behavior.
Where's a 105 with a beehive round when you need one...
Okay, first off, sorry for the sarcasm. It was aimed at those inmates rioting, not you.
Secondly, who wouldn't riot?...
...If I were in the prison, I wouldn't. I would tell myself, "Whose fault is it you're here in here anyhow!? Suck it up and take it like the man you should have been in the first place. If you don't like it, you don't ever have to come back."
Of course, most of those who take personal responsibility for their lives and its direction don't end up in prison in the first place. I find it so ironic that all prison inmates interviewed usually talk about "pride" and "honor codes" in prison. What source of real pride could anyone have if the rest of the country is willing to pay $30,000 a year to make you disappear, and consider it money well spent?
The best philosophy I ever saw was a warden who came into a prison and immediately did away with the idea that prisoners had "their cells", or "their exercise yards" or "their anything". His opinion was that if you didn't build it, and you didn't buy it, then you don't own it, and you sure as heck won't control it. You want a room of your own? Get out of prison and rent one, these belong to the people of the State of <where ever>. He moved inmates around as much as possible, to reinforce this idea.
Secondly, who wouldn't riot?...
...If I were in the prison, I wouldn't. I would tell myself, "Whose fault is it you're here in here anyhow!? Suck it up and take it like the man you should have been in the first place. If you don't like it, you don't ever have to come back."
Of course, most of those who take personal responsibility for their lives and its direction don't end up in prison in the first place. I find it so ironic that all prison inmates interviewed usually talk about "pride" and "honor codes" in prison. What source of real pride could anyone have if the rest of the country is willing to pay $30,000 a year to make you disappear, and consider it money well spent?
The best philosophy I ever saw was a warden who came into a prison and immediately did away with the idea that prisoners had "their cells", or "their exercise yards" or "their anything". His opinion was that if you didn't build it, and you didn't buy it, then you don't own it, and you sure as heck won't control it. You want a room of your own? Get out of prison and rent one, these belong to the people of the State of <where ever>. He moved inmates around as much as possible, to reinforce this idea.
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