G.W. Bush and D. Rumsfeld draft-dodgers?

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RobW

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In a discussion over the Iraq-war, a German friend said that Dubya and D. Rumsfeld were draft-dodgers because of the Viet Nam war.

As far as I know, Dubya was a pilot in the National Guard during this time, I know nothing about D. Rumsfeld.

May be they mixed it up with W.J. Clinton and A. Gore?

Someone can tell me? Sources? :confused:
 
http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/rumsfeld.html

Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989.
Click to expand...
 
Clinton & Bush

I've read that Clinton was drafted and skipped the country and a warrant was issued tha was later dismissed by gerald ford.
I've also read that President Bush was reported AWOL from his Guard assignment and had his flying licence pulled after missing several mandated physical checks.
Bush Jr has an interesting but expected history being the number 1 Tejas party animal and as son of a President and CIA Director (does anyone really know which position is the more powerful?)
George Jr was destined for power.
The Bush family like the Kennedys have held political power since the early 1900s.
Some websites claim to prove the Bush Clan are bloodine to the British Crown, Daddy has been Knighted ya know?
 
Guess what?

Although Vietnam was a major sideshow during the late '60s-early '70s, flying an F-102 Delta Dart in that time period was being in the forefront of national defense.

See, there was this other country at the time who had some really big bombers with bombs and standoff missiles and other stuff that wanted to hurt us. The pilots who guarded the airspace of CONUS were definitely serving their country.
 
Very true, Tamara.

One of my coworkers enlisted in the Air Force in 1964, and was never assigned outside of the United States.

He booted in 1968 after his term was up.

Is he some sort of draft dodger because he never left the United States during the hottest period of the Vietnam war?
 
Yeah, and my dad was a draft dodger for joining the navy in the 60s, I suppose.

:rolleyes:

Mike
 
Thanks, Tamara. You said it well.

Being a Naval Aviator has never been a good danger avoidance choice either.... :rolleyes:
 
I LOVE how that second link categorizes Ronald Reagan as being paramount to a draft dodger, saying his preferred assignment was Hollywood.

That site loses all credibility for that fact alone.

Reagan requested, several times, assignment to combat units, and every time was turned down, but served in the United States Army and attained the rank of Captain.


It's VERY evident that this site, the "Chicken Hawker," is nothing more than a liberal screed of the highest proportions.

Categorizing Frank Sinatra as a Chickenhawk is also disingenuous. It even lists the reason Sinatra was 4F -- a punctured ear drum.
 
Since we're rehashing Bush's service record, though, this old question comes up...

Has anyone ever determined how and why Al Gore managed to get out of Vietnam after only 5 months of a 12-month tour of duty?

Wouldn't have anything to do with political influence now, would it?

Nah, his old man was just a chump change Senator...
 
One last thought.

I never served in the military. Even if I HAD been in the military, it's likely that I would not have served at any time when US troops were deployed in anything even remotely resembling combat operations.

If I go into public office, I'm sure that will be held against me.

One BIG question, though, is what does a person's military service record have to do with his ability as an overall leader, or his willingness to use the military in times of necessity?

Not one goddamned thing, if you ask me.
 
Not one goddamned thing, if you ask me.
Click to expand...
A LOT, if you ask me.

To be a good leader, you must first be a good follower. The military teaches that to everybody.

Military service improves the leadership skills of those who have military experience, and it inculcates leadership skills into those who never previously had or demonstrated any.

Most importantly, military experience teaches the law of unintended consequences through practical applications, something many in leadership positions don't always understand.

None of this is to say that military experience is necessary to be a good leader. It just says that a good leader will become a better leader through U.S. military service.
 
Mike?

What time period would that be?
America has had many small wars btw, so I gather you made a conscious choice not to serve in the military?
I regret your use of the word conspiracy so as to sway the readers to form some tinfoil opinions.
Are not American General Officers 'conspiring" to win the Iraq conflict?
Conspiracy in a way of life for governments is it not?
What's Al Gore got to do with this? I didn't vote for him, I wnder tho if he wouldn't have invaded Iraq also what with his solid connections to Occidental Oil etc.
Corporations, banks and lawyers run the world IMO Mike, we're simply pawns in a worldwide chess game.
Have you noticed how many sons and daughters of our elected representatives are active military?
Best!
 
Let's see....FDR led this nation in WW2 but never served in the military. Abraham Lincoln led this nation in the Civil War and he never served in the military. Alexander the Great was an unblooded lad when he began his conquest of much of the world beginning in Macedonia.

Now, to be fair, let's look at some famous leaders in history who served in their militaries: Adolf Hitler, Napoleon, the Kaiser....shall I go on?

This is not ancient Sparta where one has to serve militarily to speak, vote, or lead. The Founding Fathers made this so for a reason. I agree; most of the time, military service creates good leaders. Some of the time, it doesn't. Look at Rangel. He served in the military. So did Jimmy Carter. And I think Daschle did, too. :barf:
 
"Abraham Lincoln led this nation in the Civil War and he never served in the military."
Click to expand...


Abraham Lincoln’s Military Service
During the Black Hawk War, 1832—

By Robert A. Braun

http://www.geocities.com/old_lead/abe.htm

....."During the Black Hawk War, Abraham Lincoln of New Salem, Illinois served three enlistments. Each enrollment lasted for approximately 30 days."
 
Just because it is "on the internet" does not make it true.

GWB was in the Air National Guard. He flew in high performance jets. Beyond that I can not comment. Al Gore went to Vietnam, but beyond that, I can not comment. Do not sulley GHWB's record however.

GHWB was a naval combat pilot in WWII that was shot down while flying during a combat mission. His sacrifice was no less than JFK's in PT109. Both men put their lives in harms way for their country. They might have gone into the war for political reasons, but they were shot at and almost killed nevertheless.
 
"Military service improves the leadership skills..."

Without a doubt it can.

So can many other forms of service.

Am I totally negating the importance of military service? No.

Am I saying, however, that military service should be the sole and complete arbiter of one's qualifications to lead, or a point for battering the ever-loving crap out of your political opponent to the point of ignoring just about every other aspect of the individual's life and experience? No.
 
"America has had many small wars btw, so I gather you made a conscious choice not to serve in the military?"

No.

I broke my back my sophomore year and have permanent nerve damage and a failing left hip. When I discussed that with the Navy rep. at my college, he said the liklihood of my being accepted was next to none in the middle 1980s.

But, you're right, I likely would have been in service during the Panama Incursion in 1989.
 
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