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Game at longer range guns

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by film495, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. film495

    film495 Member

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    I have my Dad's Remington 760 pump action in 30-06. It has a scope and I was thinking of finally getting around to checking it out and sighting it in etc. I always thought of this as the longest range firearm up in my little gun cabinet.

    Any tips on how to do that? I don't have a plan to actually go hunt with it currently, just want to check it out and do a standard sight in. Would you do this at 100 yards? 300 Yards?

    Second question, since 30-06 was invented 114 years ago. Are there common cartridges that are now clearly superior that if one were to go get a new hunting rifle for longer range use, that should be looked at ahead of 30-06. Something that could take, deer, black bear, possibly a moose if needed.
     
  2. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    1. If it were me, I’d find a good 160-180 grain round that grouped well and sight it dead on at 100 and learn to shoot it at 200, 250, and 300.

    2. There are rounds that, on paper, are superior, but none of them killed a quarter of the game the good ol’ ‘ought six’ has...it’s a damn good round with an incredible history!
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. film495

    film495 Member

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    Interesting. I think out past 300 yards the bullet drop would confuse the heck out of me, between judging the distance and drop, think you're right - start at 100 and work back from there. The rifle has a scope on it, is the a preferred type or magnification at 100-300 yards? I'll have to look at what is with it, think it was 4x, but not completely sure.
     
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  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Anymore 300 yards isn't really considered long range. Most any decent bullet 150-180 gr zeroed at 100 yards will be around 2" low at 200 yards. At 300 you'll be 10-12" low, but remember you're shooting at a 10-12" kill zone. Even at 300 yards you only need to hold 2-3" over an animals back and you'll still hit the kill zone.

    Beyond 300 yards all cartridges (even magnums) start to drop fast enough that accurate range estimation is important. A range finder and a scope with multiple aiming points or dials to compensate for the drop at those ranges are a good idea. With practice, and with no wind it isn't hard to make hits at MUCH longer ranges. Figuring the wind is much more difficult.

    That's why you use onlineballistics program and enter the data for the load you're using. You then print out a cheat sheet that you tape to the rifle stock showing bullet drop at various ranges and the math already done to compensate for the drops.

    Your 30-06 is still a good option. There are other more efficient choices that will recoil less, burn less powder, and work better at extreme long range. But as said, 300 yards isn't that far and the 30-06 is more than capable. A 4X scope is still going to be acceptable at 300 yards. On big game animals 1X for every 100 yards is doable. I like a little more magnification than that, but can make it work. I've shot out to 600 yards with 6X scopes and did fine.

    There are better options for the rifle, the 7600 isn't going to be as accurate as most modern bolt rifles and the triggers are not that great. Remember a rifle that will shoot 2" groups at 100 yards translates into 6" groups at 300 yards. For hunting that is still acceptable, but most guys want better. If you can keep 3 shots into 1" at 100 yards then you're looking at 3" at 300 yards. I'd like that better.

    But use the rifle you have and go have fun with your dads rifle. You may decide later to move to a more accurate rifle and another cartridge. But by then you'll have a better idea of what you really want.
     
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  5. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    300’s just barely outside of point blank range for a 30-06 given the appropriate bullet. Certainly short range by conventional standards, for at least the couple decades I’ve been around Service Rifle, and I expect several decades before that based on the other riflemen competing. Just need to find a happy load for the rifle, and practice.
     
  6. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    Better yet print out "online ballistics" then prove them on the range creating your own proven dope sheet.

    With the lines of the OP's questions, lots of practice at 100yds, may be 50yds to build form, muscle memory and confidence. Then start stretching distance. Nothing is more frustrating to a new shooter then being all over the target at longer distances and not know why.
     
  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    There is a lot to be said for ballistic reticles, data, and practice.
     
  8. film495

    film495 Member

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    I just haven't done it. I have a 30-30 that I'm pretty comfortable with in the 50-100 yard range with open sights. I took the scope off the 30-06, just cause I'm not used to it and pretty sure I'd do well out to about 200 yards with it just with the standard sights, but I'd like to learn how to take and make longer shots with the scope. Starting at 100 and working out to 300 yards seems like the place to start. Eventually pushing out as far as I can figure out to shoot it effectively. From what I read people can get out to 600ish with good practice, maybe 700-800 at an expert level.

    For the most part - I like to have 2 guns in each caliber I have. It sounds like for my purposes - the 30-06 will do everything I need/want it to do. I'm not a competition shooter, just want to learn how to use the old rifle and see what I can do, just to add to skills. Is there a bolt action, or a rifle that is a favorite in this caliber that anyone can suggest; old/new, not looking to get anything now, just like to collect info in case something pops up and I see a good deal.
     
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  9. Vkt

    Vkt Member

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    The old sight in procedure for hunting was to adjust your scope 2" high at 100 yards.
    Also try some different types of ammunition and bullet weights 150-180gr to see what your rifle groups the best with.

    Your 4 power scope should be fine if it still functions.
    But f you need a new scope or more magnification look into a good quality 3-9x40.

    Yes there's better cartridges that shoot flatter and have more energy but the .30-06 is no slouch that's why it's been around so long.
     
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  10. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    The 30-06 has not lost it’s ability to do everything well especially in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing. The only thing that has dulled the 30-06 in the opinion of some is that it is no longer hyped. People live by hype, are easily influenced by hype - most people are followers and can be led to any caliber (or anything in life) with enough hype. That round and rifle you have is “enough” for 99.9% of your needs and/ or desires. This is a great forum but sometimes you have to temper the hype.
     
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  11. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Takes a good shot to hit a deer size animal beyond a hundred yards off hand consistently. Tucked in on a bench shooting sub moas’ isn’t the same as a shot of opportunity and unless the game is in an open area more often than not, all of it isn't visible.
    First find a place to shoot, then spend a lot of time and Ammo there.
    Your profile doesn’t show where your from. Hunting conditions in your area even allow 300 yard shots on deer let alone bear.

    Your pump 30/06 is good for any big game on the North American continent.
     
  12. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    I sight in most of my rifles at 100, then do appropriate adjustments depending on range

    For non rifleman type shooters, I find it easier to use MBPR (maximum point blank range). In English, this means that you sight in as high as possible at 100 yards and still keep your bullet in the kill zone. I suspect you could simply hold dead on out to 225-250 yards and still get an effective shot. Makes life simpler. That’s what I do on my deer hunting rifle.

    When target shooting, you have time to fiddle and diddle and twist dials and look at ballistics tables. Deer don’t stand in one place forever like a paper target
     
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  13. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    Maybe not with a 760...

    But a Thirty Aught Six is definitely capable of getting there.
    image.jpg

    I love my Remys. The one with the recoil pad was my Grandfather’s. Does yours have the See-Thru rings that are so popular for the pumps? I removed the bent and stripped out set from Grandpa’s. There was also what looked like Channel-Lock teeth marks around the scope ocular. That totally sounds like my Grandfather...;)
    I installed a rail, but have yet to scope it. The 1954 replacement I bought, to keep wear off of Grandpa’s, shoots so well I haven’t had the other out in a long while.


    But for a bolt action I like Savage. I don’t know why, just do.
    So in that light, this is what I am considering.
    https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57429

    I just haven’t decided Springfield or Creedmoor. I have two 30-06s already, but no bolt action...
    A conundrum for certain.

    What kind of bolt action do you like?
    What is your budget?

    I prefer to use Mean Point Blank Range for the pump rifles. Wonderful guns they are, but not tack driving. If they were inaccurate I wouldn’t have any. But a stick shift has that edge, they are more consistent from different holds and positions, nothing hanging from, or interacting with, the barrel.

    For everything else I zero at one hundred and learn the drop.

    I like variable and large magnification. FourX would be fine for a hunting pump action.
     
  14. film495

    film495 Member

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    I'm in Southern, NH - so, most hunting is wooded; on a trip it would be possible for me to be in any part of NH, ME, or VT - but, I have no real plans, just want to learn the marksmanship of it for now. For longer ranges, there are some areas that are open - so, there are open fields that can be 1,000 yards or more - or if you were up on a hill, you might be faced with a longer range shot down into a valley if you were up to it. Most shots would be within 250 yards for sure, just thinking ahead and like to hear how others would approach it. I have a property to practice at where I pretty much could set up practice shots at just about any range, so - that is new and opens up new learning opportunities, so pretty excited about it.

    I'll have to take a picture of the Remington I have. The recoil pad looks just like Demi-Human's grandfather's. It also has the same mounting rail on top of the receiver like that. I think the open sights are the common buckhorn, if that's what you call it, with a metal piece with a slot in the middle, that lines up to a post type front sight. I think the one I have is from the early 1970's.
     
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  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    One responsibility I recommend for all hunters - develop ways to never take a free-hand shot (aka, never shoot unsupported). Out of hundreds of game animals over the last 20yrs, I can only remember a handful of which were taken offhand, unsupported. There is always SOME means to support the rifle, and improve stability on target in the field. I carry a shooting stick religiously, and have started the last few years also carrying a barricade bag when stalking on foot. Shooting 200yrds without a jacket and just a sling is a daunting task. On my worst day, I can typically still deliver smaller than “minute of vitals” groups reliably at 200 when firing offhand with a hasty sling on a scoped hunting rifle, but honestly consider such a shot to be rather irresponsible - simply, nothing precludes supported fire when hunting. Even when stalking, at least a shooting stick. So the responsibility of the hunter is to be diligent enough to make use of these field supports opportunities. Shooting from the tip of a fence post or using my shooting stick leaning against a tree, my field precision shrinks to reliably (meaning never larger) deliver on 4” targets at 200yrds.

    I also challenge - a blindly assumptive 2” high at 100yrds game isn’t responsible. Anyone reading this has access to a free ballistic calculator, plus advice and resources for how to use it and how to tune a trajectory even without a chronograph. It’s not irresponsible to utilize an MPBR method for hunting, but there’s no excuse for failing to develop your actual trajectory to identify EXACTLY the right 100yrd zero offset, or EXACTLY the right downrange zero range to establish your MPBR zero, and no excuse to even fail to understand the relative trajectory within the MPBR. I almost universally zero at 100yrds, but quite typically carry my rifle afield dialed for 200 or 225yrds, corresponding to an extended PBR (maybe not focused on MPBR in that case).

    Folks pretend it’s a lot of “fiddling and diddling” to be responsible for your trajectory management in the field. Personally, I find this to be an absolutely lame excuse. Firstly, from the experience of doing that “fiddling” in the field for 30 years, I’ve not missed shot opportunities due to any extra time required to confirm range and check against a range card. Secondly, because I’ve personally experienced in other contexts how quickly data can be referenced and dialed - dialing isn’t the slow part of the split between shots - measuring on the shot timer this morning, dialing between two shots is under 3 seconds (enter the Fudd responses that “deer might not even give you 3 seconds” - be real, you’re not making a snap shot at 300 yards in the field in under 3 seconds without referencing range data anyway...). At these shorter ranges, we’re not talking about significant deviations in trajectory for even relatively large errors in range (ie a fenceline was ranged at 250, but the deer is 25-50yrds past the fenceline - it’s only an inch of variance across that span) AND, holding a tenth or two to compensate for observed deviation from recorded data is pretty simple (ie knowing the fenceline is 250, 0.6 mils, and 300yrds is 0.8, so a deer at 275ish is a safe hold at 0.7). Easy to twist to 0.7, or even simply hold to 0.7 - or in my case, since I’m walking around dialed to 0.4 (225 equivalent), I can hold about 1/4 mil (with 1/2mil hashes) and deliver the bullet within an inch... can’t complain about that.
     
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  16. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    I'd just put a 100 yard zero on it. Learn the rifle and hold over for longer shots if needed.

    Although 30-06 is capable of what most would consider "long range," I would not call a 760 a long range rifle; nor would I call it "accurate." I'm in south Louisiana and most shots are within 100-150 yards, so pump guns were pretty popular at one time. In the accuracy department, they are accurate enough. Say, capable of 2 MOA accuracy with ammunition that the rifle likes. You could likely surpass that with any stock out of the box Remington or Savage bolt action, just to name a couple. The 760 is what it is and you'd be best served using the rifle for what it is. It's a nice hunting rifle for the sort of terrain that you described. Just use it for what it's good for and don't try to turn it into a target rifle.

    If you're thinking about getting into target shooting, there are better options, such as something in a 6.5mm. If you want to stick with a .30 cal, maybe consider a .308. All the .308 gives up is about 200 fps and it's a lot easier. It's easier on your wallet, your equipment and your body; and a .308 can reach out to what most consider to be long range.
     
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  17. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    Hey! Easy, now...
    Thems fightin’ words in this Amish country, roun’ here.

    None finer, in my biased opinion.:)

    Even though that would preclude his requirement of loading for two firearms of the same caliber, I agree.
    I have dies for the venerable Aught Six, but a bolt action in that caliber is not as right for me as a Six Creedmoor.
    Even though I like recoil therapy, the Springer doesn’t sound like a good match for a target rifle.

    For a hunting rifle, there certainly is none better.

    No!
    I said it was the best!
    Lalalalalaaa!
    I can’t hear you over all the 30-06 greatness!
    Lalalalaa!
    Especially in a pump!
    Laaaa hmmm hm hmmmm!
    The best!


    :D
     
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  18. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    See, that part about having two rifles in each caliber so that he'd have two rifle to load for in each caliber, I don't get. If you have two rifles and have to develop a load for each, they might as well be in two calibers. Actually, two calibers may help avoid some confusion with what's in the ammo storage. I mean, he may find a load that does well enough in both rifles, but I doubt that he will find a load that both rifles shoot the best with.
     
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  19. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    I bought my Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 in 1961. I don't believe I've ever taken big game at more than 200 yards. I'm with Varminterror in that almost all of my shots were taken with some form of support with the exception of a few short range shots at running game.
     
  20. film495

    film495 Member

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    If you're refining loads for the gun - then partly I agree, but it would use the same components and dies etc. I also shoot factory rounds - and end up reloading mostly those. I haven't done any rifle rounds as of yet, so it is mostly speculative. It might work out that factory rounds are quality enough at 100-200 yards with the 760, but if I found another rifle with the idea it would be for 300-600 yards or more, I might learn to tweak loads for that gun/chamber and it would fire the handloads. Honestly, I'm so far away from doing anything like that - but, when I go through my equipment I often look at it from the perspective of what I really don't have the potential to do with what is there. I have only the 760 with a scope and that is it. The 30-30 from all I've seen just isn't really something that if I have the 760 would ever get used past say 75 yards strolling through the woods - it is a little handier than the Remington.

    I'm not likely to buy anything anytime soon. I was watching Gun Stories the other day, and they were doing 1,000 yard shots with 6.5 Creedmore. I look at my modest collection of firearms, and the 760 is the only thing that could even be considered for shooting more than 200 yards, but it probably isn't really good for that - so, I'll do research and ask questions and at some point, find either another 30-06 or add a caliber. I'm not against adding a caliber, but I try not to, it keeps my ammo cans and reloading supplies and equipment in neater little organized packages that I like in limited space.
     
  21. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Most people fire a check shot at 25 yards (to be sure the round will impact somewhere near where it is aimed) then move back to 100 yards and zero so the bullet impacts from 1" to 3" high at that range. If you have a longer range available, it's not bad to shoot a few groups at 200 yards (you should be just about dead on at that range) and if you can, try 300 yards and see where the bullets group -- don't mess with the sights at 300, just learn where you will hit in relation to the sights when shooting at that range.

    The .30-06 is perfectly adequate for those critters at any reasonable shooting distance. For larger game, though, I prefer premium ammunition -- I load my own and choose the 165 grain Nosler Partition Jacket bullet. This bullet can be counted on to do the job.
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022500965?pid=444821

    Then download Strelok Pro or the Applied Ballistic software to your phone.

    Too pricey?

    https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Diamondback-Tactical-FFP-Riflescope-6-24x50-MRAD-DBK-10029.aspx

    Or search for the Bushnell Nitro & Forge scopes, there are some deals out there on those.

    Run a chart for what to dial, eyeball or shoot the distance with your rangefinder, takes a couple of seconds to dial the drop.

    Easy.

    Or go old school and get a good scope with a ballistic reticle that matches up well enough for you up to say 400 yards.
     
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  23. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    Whoa fellas. I think we got the cart to far in front of the horse. New shooter, non hunter, wanting a long range hunting rifle. My dad had a Rem 760 in .270 Was a good hunting rifle out to at least 200yds, furthest we ever shot it. Was probably a just under 2moa rifle. OP needs to get out and shoot his present rifle at 100 before he talks about hunting at 600. Better yet get a decent scoped .22 and shoot 100 - 200yds. That will teach you about bullet drop and wind. I shoot my .22 out to 240yds in club competitions and can vouch for that.
     
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  24. js8588

    js8588 Member

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    Will 30-06 do everything you're asking of it? Yep.

    Will YOUR 30-06 be capable of it?

    I dunno. Might do.

    Scope it. Shoot some groups at 100 yards. If you can keep it under 2 moa, you're in business.

    If not, it's either the rifle (good chance. 760s CAN be accurate, but that's the exception rather than the rule), or the rifleman. It's not the fault of the 30-06, though.
     
  25. film495

    film495 Member

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    This thread just game me the excuse I need to go find a scoped Ruger 10/22, just to practice more at 100 or 200 yards on the cheap.
     
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