Garage sale find . . . . handmade Burmese hybrid?

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Don Gwinn

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Dad was at a yard sale the other day in sleepy little Virden, IL and ran across some interesting items. He gave me perhaps the most interesting of the bunch. One of the things he kept was an old kukri that appears, to my non-expert eye, to be genuine and not one of the cheap knock-offs. I have an Indian cheapie, and it's a real clunker compared to this thing, with a blade profile more like a thick chisel than anything else. This sucker has a very thick spine, but the blade profile is almost like a mild hollow grind. It's a hell of a cutter. It also has a fairly unique notched mark--I forget what they're called, forgive me.

There was also a Japanese bayonet obviously made crudely and in great haste. The guard was clearly rough-cut with shears, and the grips were not fitted to the tang, just pinned on and squared off. The locking mechanism worked smoothly, but the pommel was just roughly squared off and not shaped beyond that at all. The blade wasn't sharpened; it was perhaps 1/32 of an inch thick at the cutting edge. Only the first 3 inches or so, measured from the point, were sharpened at all. The entire blade is still covered in the machining marks and there are no fullers or other details added.

But the most interesting piece, to me anyway, is the one I'm posting pictures of in this thread. Dad says the man sold all these knives (and some others ) as the contents of an old footlocker. He told dad he served in the Pacific in--I think--1943-on. He told dad this piece was a trench knife and that he had served in Burma for awhile, where he got it. Dad didn't ask, but I assume if he was telling the truth that a local smith made it from an American's bayonet.

I'd wondered about the man's story, but now I'm not so sure. For one thing, the knife has horn scales. Those surely weren't the original issue grips. The only other knife I own with horn like this is from the Phillippines. The workmanship is not pretty, but very strong and utilitarian (and the sort of thing a low-tech smith might use.) As you can see from the photos, brass was used to braze the rough, spiked D-guard to the original steel hilt and pommel, filling in the bayonet mount in the process. It's very solid. The blade was also cut down to a bowie style from the long bayonet. It's stamped "U.S." and "RIA"--Rock Island Armory? I dunno.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone can tell me more about this kind of thing. Was it common in places like Burma? I would think so, with the number of smiths there and the difference in prices even back then. Don't really know.

Honestly, it probably doesn't matter. . . . but the story is perhaps the coolest thing about this knife. Maybe he used it to kill a Nazzy and 50 Toe Joes before a Japan-Man shot off his shins. . . .

(Photo removed to cure the Scrolling Screen of Death. You'll just have to click the link, lazybones.)
 

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That rocks! I love old WWII pieces like that. Makes me wonder how he held it. :confused: My guess is that he held it in reverse grip with the edge inward.
 
Pretty neat, Don. I see Daniel picked up the first thing I noticed, too. :)

My grandpa (well, grandma's husband) served in the Navy in WWII. My brother
and I each got a sword from him that he picked up in the Phillippines. Mine was in pristine shape, but my brother's, while well preserved, had seen some hard use. And was almost razor sharp. Looked about like this model from Valiant Company:
i-Bolo1.jpg
 
In the back of my mind, I kinda wondered if that was something he asked the smith to do, or something the smith assumed on his own. Made me wonder if there were some local fighting style (Bandalong?) that favored such a grip. It's actually a good parry dagger in the forward grip, and I guess you could parry with the "edge" without concern that way (the outward facing "edge" would be the spine.) But who knows?
Couldn't have been an accident. . . . I think!

Dad says he's not sure which house this came from, but I'm going to try to find the old soldier and ask him some questions. I'm a geek, but I find this stuff fascinating. It's an East-West hybrid from before East-West hybrids were cool.
 
I have seen some WW1 trench knives (European) that were made in that configuration, with the edge in and knuckles on spine side. I think the idea was to use the "icepick" style in close quarters, and for cutting throats. If the guy backs up, smash him in the face and stab him again, or so I suppose.

The ones I saw had brass knuckles and slim, bowie style blades that faced 'the wrong way". They were not issued, but apparently quite a few of them found their way into the hands of the men in the trenches.

So, I could be wrong, but I think the fellow probably asked to have that done. I have not seen any Asian or Pacific weapons that would equate to one of these. I doubt if there is any "school of fence" that goes with that style other than down 'n dirty rush in quick prison style.

Maybe, I dunno...

Neat knife though!
 
It could be held in the icepick grip...as limited as that grip is.

Personally, I would hold that knife with the edge up with the guard ready to be used as brass knuckles. Thrusts in low to the thighs or belly would then be ripped either out or up. Spine of the blade would be used to parry.
 
Byron nailed it.

Most likely the knife was made for the purposes of using in an edge up forward grip.
There is some historical reference to the "mountain men" fighting like this with their knives - perhaps because of a familiarity with skinning or utility functions, with the edge up.
One manuevre they were supposedly fond of was to go low, between a guys legs, stick the blade up his a$$, no need to make a new entry hole, already have a guided path, and then rip it forwards and out.

Some schools of thought on sentry removal want to cut the throat fromt he outside in - a backwards knife can be used like this.
Skin is hard to cut, really - it should be easier to stick the knife into the side of the neck, and then rotate it foreards and out, inside to out. Could be done with a edge-in knife, by reaching all the way around (from behind of course), stabbing into the off side of the throat and dragging/ripping the knife back across.

Some say the Randal Model One was intended to be capable of use Edge Up, hence the notch infront of the guard on the spine of the blade, so one could hook their index finger over the guard and get more leverage.
Neat idea, but unless the guard completely encircles the finger, it makes so the spine of your knife is a guide for the other-guys weapon to come down and destroy your finger when the tools are clashed against one another. I'd use it with my fingers behind the guard where they are safe.

As for using it in edge in reverse grip (Pikal, meaning To Rip in the Visayan dialect, Phillipine), the blade is too long, would put some hard leverage against your wrist like that. Pikal, or any form of reverse grip, I really feel is suited for blades under 6" in length. Its possible with longer blades, but I much preffer to use them in forward grip. If I need extreme close quarter capability, I look to edge up.

Anyone interested in these styles of fighting should check out the tutorials and products on the www.shivworks.com web-site, these guys are really pioneering a whole new level of blade-play and practical martial thought, street stuff, simple, effective. Really worth looking in to.
Also, Michael DeBethencourt teaches these methods, and on the www.realfighting.com website, if you will look at the back issues, in issue 5 (the previous issue to the current one), Debethencourt has an article on this subject.

Personally, I think this fighter exhibits a wonderful sense of brutality, and no-nonsense gutter/trench fighting. I love it. And yes I would say its likely to be a Philipino crafted piece, or something the solider made for himself with local materials. Lots of guys made their own knives, its well documented, and now its a field of collecting called "theater made knives" - neat stuff, although its kind of rare to see blades that are such truly practical dirty fighters.
Great find!!
 
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