Garand barrel length/gas port

[AlexanderA]

Any idea what the “y50” indicates?

That's the lot number of the material used to make the barrel, in other words the batch of steel.

The "Blue Sky" marking indicates that at some point post-1964 it was probably issued to the Korean military. The reason these guns could have been reimported and sold by a private company is that the Korean government paid for them. Guns that were lent to allies for free (such as to Greece), when returned, went back into U.S. government inventory and had to be sold by the CMP. Those lack import markings because they technically never left U.S. custody.

One problem that has been identified with the "Blue Sky" marking is that sometimes it was stamped with so much force as to distort the bore. (This probably happened more often with Carbines than with Garands.) Other times, the marking is so light that it can be removed by careful peening, sanding, and cold bluing.

All of this points to the conclusion that your best alternative is to rebarrel.

 

[Catpop]

Looking at my M1, I don’t think the Koreans took very good care of their rifles! Jmho. My Blue Sky stamping is kinda in between.
Thanks for info.

 

[AlexanderA]

Looking at my M1, I don’t think the Koreans took very good care of their rifles!

When surplussing their Garands, I'm sure the Koreans sold the ones in the worst condition first. Having paid for them, they had that option. These are the ones that were replaced by the Daewoo K2, which is an excellent design.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have a Greek M1. It was/is mechanically fine, functions perfectly, (I did put in a new recoil spring, and had to increase the clip-release spring) The stock looks like it was transported in the back of a gravel truck more than once however. Including carved in initials. Well, scratched in initials.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have a Greek M1. It was/is mechanically fine, functions perfectly, (I did put in a new recoil spring, and had to increase the clip-release spring) The stock looks like it was transported in the back of a gravel truck more than once however. Including carved in initials. Well, scratched in initials.

The Greeks are still using Garands for ceremonial purposes. Their standard rifle is now the G3, but M4's are increasingly being issued.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Them Greeks have some strange fashion ideas. I believe the M1 is still the ceremonial rifle of the U.S. Marines. ?

 

[Show Me]

My Garand barrel is really worn at muzzle. And from what I’ve read a very common milsurp problem due to soldier’s constant cleaning to please drill sergeants—maybe.
Common enough to make a muzzle bore gage to use in evaluating barrels serviceability.

Question: If I was to cut muzzle back to front of gas chamber lock nut to be able to get back to better rifling, would there still be sufficient length from gas point to muzzle the function action? I’ve never seen this topic discussed.
Yes I know barrel would no longer support a bayonet.
Thanks in advance![/QUOTE

 

[Hikingman]

Angle in for cleaning? Fortunately, I've passed the 'straight down the bore' with that cleaning rod idea to a few newbies.

First, I would be interested in accuracy differences between that rifle, and one that looks new. My relative held back on shooting his Special Grade CMP Garand, it was too nice!

 

[Reloadron]

Aside from muzzle erosion normally measured with a ME (Muzzle Erosion) gauge you have no idea what the TE (Throat Erosion) is. I would just replace the barrel and be done with it. The CMP will do that as well as others. All who would do the work have long delays and backlogs. Anyway counterboring or cutting off the last inch of the barrel won't hurt function but after you whack it off you need to clean up the muzzle and give it a new crown. I say replace it unless you have someone with a TE gauge so you know the throat erosion. Simply put you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You may just be wasting your time.

As to replacing a barrel and collector value? To have any collector value the rifle would need to have all the correct parts and during 1942 the M1 Garand went through several changes as to revision levels of the parts. I have seen very few correct WWII rifles. Most are what is commonly called a "mix-master".

Anyway if the rifle otherwise works fine then if you want to invest in it I would just have it rebarreled.

Ron

 

[cfullgraf]

In the late 2000’s, the CMP sold a bunch of NOS Garand barrels. Most were made in the late 1940’s or so.

With some searching, one may find a NOS Garand barrel.

Since most Garands went through at least one rebuild, installing a NOS barrel would keep the Garand’s historic configuration.

But, the CMP Specials with a Criterion barrel are very good Garands. You can’t go wrong with a Criterion barrel.

 

[cfullgraf]

My relative held back on shooting his Special Grade CMP Garand, it was too nice!

I’m just the opposite. I shoot my Specials and save my Arsenal rebuild mixmaster Garands for historic value how ever large or small that is.

Just a different way of looking at things.

 

[AlexanderA]

To have any collector value the rifle would need to have all the correct parts

I would say that all Garands have some collector value. I have a Winchester M1 that, in the 1960's, was salvaged from scrap. The torch-cut receiver was welded back together and the shot-out barrel was reamed out, and sleeved with a turned-down surplus 03A3 barrel. I bought this gun in 1969 for $110, not knowing its dismal history. (In those days legit M1's were hard to come by.) Later, when I knew enough to properly evaluate it, I figured its value was close to zero. Now, I'm not so sure. It's an example of the ingenious lengths to which the salvagers would go in those days. Anyway, it looks good and it's a reminder to me of the mistakes I made in my early days of collecting. Also, it's a placeholder. It's the only Winchester M1 I have.

 

[Jeremy2171]

I would say that all Garands have some collector value. I have a Winchester M1 that, in the 1960's, was salvaged from scrap. The torch-cut receiver was welded back together and the shot-out barrel was reamed out, and sleeved with a turned-down surplus 03A3 barrel. I bought this gun in 1969 for $110, not knowing its dismal history. (In those days legit M1's were hard to come by.) Later, when I knew enough to properly evaluate it, I figured its value was close to zero. Now, I'm not so sure. It's an example of the ingenious lengths to which the salvagers would go in those days. Anyway, it looks good and it's a reminder to me of the mistakes I made in my early days of collecting. Also, it's a placeholder. It's the only Winchester M1 I have.

Just don't shoot it.

 

[Laphroaig]

I don't shoot my DCM rifle anymore. It's a 1945 manufacture with the original barrel still attached, but those are the only correct parts. A NFR stock cartouche would be required and he was the commanding officer for only about a year so chances of finding a correct stock are slim to none.

I have 3 others that I do shoot from time to time so its not a big loss for me.

 

[AlexanderA]

It's a 1945 manufacture with the original barrel still attached, but those are the only correct parts.

The obsession with "correct" parts is grossly misplaced. The military didn't care about matching parts and neither should collectors.

 

[Reloadron]

I would say that all Garands have some collector value. I have a Winchester M1 that, in the 1960's, was salvaged from scrap. The torch-cut receiver was welded back together and the shot-out barrel was reamed out, and sleeved with a turned-down surplus 03A3 barrel. I bought this gun in 1969 for $110, not knowing its dismal history. (In those days legit M1's were hard to come by.) Later, when I knew enough to properly evaluate it, I figured its value was close to zero. Now, I'm not so sure. It's an example of the ingenious lengths to which the salvagers would go in those days. Anyway, it looks good and it's a reminder to me of the mistakes I made in my early days of collecting. Also, it's a placeholder. It's the only Winchester M1 I have.

I agree they all have some collector value. That said even the rewelds like you mention are somewhat sought after. However, the same can be said about many old rifles. During the early to mid 90s when thousands came in from Korea, like the Blue Sky imports already mentioned, they were running about $250. My first DCM rifle was $200 if I recall. Today I see the same guns running about $1,000 at gun shows. I have a few M1 Garands.





The upper rifle is a WWII issue which is setup for match with the NM2 sights and all the usual tricks done including bedding. I built that one in '96. The rifle is also sort of unusual in that it is chambered in 7mm-08 Remington. I have a 7.62 NATO barrel waiting for me to install. Years ago I shot it open class since it is not as issued. The rifle is a very good shooter. The lower rifle is a Korean era Springfield Armory which is correct including the DoD cartouche on the stock. The stock is from when they went to birch wood and commonly called the orange wood stocks. While both rifles we could say are collectable only the lower rifle is actually as issued and neither would command a true collectable price from a Garand collector.During the early to mid 90s my wife and I had a brick and mortar shop and my nich was Garands. With a few more receivers I could build a few more with the parts I have laying around. As to a true collectable my WWII Remington Rand 1911A1 would likely command more than the above combined.

Anyway when I mentioned no collector value my point was if the rifle were taken to a meet of Garand Collectors it would not be commanding much of a price. It would be just an average Garand.


Ron

 

[Reloadron]

The obsession with "correct" parts is grossly misplaced. The military didn't care about matching parts and neither should collectors.

Then why are Garand collectors so obsessed with a Garand being correct right down to each part and why do the correct rifles command the prices they do?

Ron

 

[Laphroaig]

The allure of the Garand, other than being a hoot to shoot, is the wide variation of makers and the parts that were used. When I got my first couple friends actually asked me to bring them over so they could tear them apart and see what was inside. Garand collectors are obsessed, and to them a "correct" rifle is the holy grail.

There was, and probably still is, a closet industry of buying the maximum allowable CMP rifles and sorting parts for a profit. You used to be able to get 12 rifles per person a year and guys drug their wives and who ever else they could find along to buy guns for them. I never fell down that rabbit hole but still like to know what I have under the hood.

 

[AlexanderA]

My first DCM rifle was $200 if I recall. Today I see the same guns running about $1,000 at gun shows.

I got a beautiful National Match M1 (new condition) from the DCM for $155.70, in 1972. (In those days, you had a limit of one per lifetime, and you had to prove you were a competitive shooter.) About ten years later, I put it up for sale at a gun show, asking $800. Some wise guy disputed the provenance, saying it was a "put together" gun. I showed him the box and the paperwork from the DCM, but he still wasn't convinced. After that, I decided to keep the gun, and I still have it. It's unfired.

 

[Reloadron]

There was, and probably still is, a closet industry of buying the maximum allowable CMP rifles and sorting parts for a profit. You used to be able to get 12 rifles per person a year and guys drug their wives and who ever else they could find along to buy guns for them. I never fell down that rabbit hole but still like to know what I have under the hood.

The interesting part is originally under the old DCM program you had to do two matches and were limited to one rifle per lifetime. Living here in NE Ohio the CMP North store is about an hour ride. The same rifles and ammunition people were buying on Monday through Friday were for sale at the gun shows on Saturday and Sunday. A $750 CMP gun was on a table for $1,000. Same when the Greek ammunition poured in, case by case. Go figure huh?

Ron

 

[Show Me]

I have two. One is a .308. Family can blow up milk jugs at 100 yards and no body cares what parts they have. I'm fine with being lucky enough to buy when they are hard to find. Grandkids can point them out in movies. I've only reloaded for them and that's fine too.

 

[cfullgraf]

Then why are Garand collectors so obsessed with a Garand being correct right down to each part and why do the correct rifles command the prices they do?

Ron

It’s different strokes for different folks.

I do not get excited about collector or correct grade Garands but their value is in the provenance that comes with the rifle from CMP. 10 years or so ago when I active in all things Garands, the experts would periodically find a Garand that had never been rebuilt but had parts in it outside the range considered correct for the production date of the rifle. For whatever reasons, parts were not always consumed “first in, first out”.

I only have one so marked, but I like the Garands that have arsenel rebuild markings inside the frame. To me, they have a bit more history and therefore a bit more value than a “run of the mill” mixmaster. I wish I would have looked for more when I was shopping for Garands.

Anyway, the nice thing about Garands is the a variety of condition levels and rebuild levels that a prospective owner can target. Usually, if the barrel is in good condition, a field grade shoots as well as an expensive one. It just does not look as pretty.

 

[Bruce D Pease]

Them Greeks have some strange fashion ideas. I believe the M1 is still the ceremonial rifle of the U.S. Marines. ?

The Parades and Ceremonies Company at Eighth and I Headquarters Marine, Corps uses them in the Friday Night Sunset Parades and the Wednesday Arlington ceremonies. If you ever want to see the absolute best Sunset Parade get thee to 8th & I for a Friday Night Sunset Parade. Cab to and from not the nicest neighborhood of DC. Call first to get tickets. They’re free but it’s always full up. The Silent Drill Team is Awesome.

 

[AlexanderA]

The interesting part is originally under the old DCM program you had to do two matches and were limited to one rifle per lifetime. Living here in NE Ohio the CMP North store is about an hour ride. The same rifles and ammunition people were buying on Monday through Friday were for sale at the gun shows on Saturday and Sunday. A $750 CMP gun was on a table for $1,000. Same when the Greek ammunition poured in, case by case. Go figure huh?

And this is why we can't have nice things. Greed. The purpose of the CMP is to distribute the surplus guns fairly and at reasonable prices, not to promote quick profit-making. Maybe there should be a limit of one per year.

 

[Reloadron]

And this is why we can't have nice things. Greed. The purpose of the CMP is to distribute the surplus guns fairly and at reasonable prices, not to promote quick profit-making. Maybe there should be a limit of one per year.

Absolutely I agree with that. Actually when things went from DCM to CMP everything went downhill. It became more about money than civilian marksmanship.

Ron