Garand Bolt/Op-rod timing question

[ScottsGT]

Was just looking at my newly acquired CMP Garand, and I noticed that the bolt was hard to pull back. Upon closer inspection and comparing with another Garand I have, I noticed that as you pull back on the op-rod, the bolt does not start to lift, but comes back some then lifts. This makes pulling back the bold a little "sticky". Almost as if it is about to jam. My other Garand, as soon as you apply reward pressure to the op-rod, the bolt starts to lift. Worn op-rod? bad bolt? Normal operation for some Garands?
Garand experts, HELP!

 

[Swampy]

Scott,

Try doing this with a loaded round in the chamber then report back. Let us know if it's still doing the same thing.

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[ScottsGT]

[scratch head smiley] So, what are you getting at here? Maybe with an empty chamber it could be closing a little too far?

 

[Swampy]

Scott,

There is a point to the exercise.....

With a round in the chamber the parts dynamics change.

Try it and report back.

If your problem goes away, well and good. If not, then on to Plan B.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[30Cal]

How does it cycle when you fire it?

Ty

 

[ScottsGT]

Big White Truck delivered it on Monday. Have not yet had a chance to try firing it.

 

[ScottsGT]

Swampy,
I just chambered a round (and got bit by the bolt, thanks! ) The "sticking" is not as pronounced, but I took a look at the machine work inside the Oprod where the bolt rides in it, and it looks brand new in there. All the machining is still VERY sharp, no polished edges or anything. The outside of the oprod shows handling wear and tear though. And the piston end looks new too. Could it just need a good breaking in with a few hundred rounds? The bolt looks good too.
BTW, it is an uncut oprod.

 

[Mr White]

If its an uncut oprod, stop right there. Don't shoot the uncut rod. Sell it to a collector for an exhorbitant amount of money and use that money to buy a new oprod, some other spare parts and maybe a spare barrel.

 

[Zullo74]

ScottsGT,

Not only are the uncut oprods worth a bunch, they are unsafe!

Read this warning I just scanned from one of my Garand sources.....

 

[Swampy]

I just chambered a round (and got bit by the bolt, thanks! )

I didn't tell you to do THAT !!!!

The "sticking" is not as pronounced, but I took a look at the machine work inside the Oprod where the bolt rides in it, and it looks brand new in there. All the machining is still VERY sharp, no polished edges or anything. The outside of the oprod shows handling wear and tear though. And the piston end looks new too. Could it just need a good breaking in with a few hundred rounds? The bolt looks good too.
BTW, it is an uncut oprod.

If it's truly an un-cut op-rod it is most certainly not new. Most likely re-finished in one of many aresenal rebuilds.

What markings are on the rod saddle?? If it truly is un-cut then I'd agree with the other guys. Sell it and buy a good post war rod with kumshaw extra.

BTW, it should be good to go if you do want to shoot it. Un-cut rods were not unsafe when used with standard GI ball ammo. The only problems occured when firing grenades or when using commercial ammo.

One more thing..... You will have the rifle GREASED before you attempt to shoot it won't you??? Just checking.......

Just my 2 bits,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[ScottsGT]

Hey Swampy, Thanks for the good info. I was thinking of selling it, heck, even the rifle and barrel since it is a matched pair from March of '43. the receiver is # 1408293 and the barrel is date stamped 1-SA-3-43.
What would be a good starting price for the oprod on lets say Gunbroker?
Op Rod # D3E382 9 SA
Price for matched WWII barreled receiver on Gunbroker?




Here's another delimma, if I do keep the rec. and barrel combination, I have a problem with the rear "ring" on the gas chamber. It is loose on this barrel. My other Garand with a 1952 replacement barrel has a stepped up area that the rear of the gas cylinder fits snug against. The contour or the original barrel does not have this feature and I have about .010 gap between the barrel and back ring on the gas cylinder. Do I need to find an earlier version of the gas cylinder to fit this barrel so it won't wiggle around?

 

[Khornet]

Scott,

dunno what you mean by the rear ring being loose. Do you mean that it doesn't touch the barrel? That's GOOD. Better accuracy. If you mean it can be moved about easily, that's BAD. It means the gas cylinder is loose on the barrel splines and probably won't shoot very well-- although you should just shoot it first and see.

 

[Swampy]

dunno what you mean by the rear ring being loose. Do you mean that it doesn't touch the barrel? That's GOOD. Better accuracy. If you mean it can be moved about easily, that's BAD. It means the gas cylinder is loose on the barrel splines and probably won't shoot very well-- although you should just shoot it first and see.

Khornet is correct..... though it is normal for some GC rear rings to be touching the barrel. It is not wrong or incorrect to be touching or not, but not is better for accuracy. Just the way they are made.

Best,
Swampy

garands forever

 

[30Cal]

Your barrel's been reparkerized. Don't know about the receiver, but that's a huge driver in what the going rate would be for a barreled receiver.

Ty

 

[1KPerDay]

Stupid question of the week:

How do I tell if my op-rod is cut or uncut? (besides speaking to a mohel?)

 

[ScottsGT]

Your barrel's been reparkerized. Don't know about the receiver, but that's a huge driver in what the going rate would be for a barreled receiver.

Ty

Considering they're both 3-'43, I'd say they were parked together.

 

[30Cal]

That'd be a good bet.


1KperDay:

The skinny on cut vs uncut oprods
http://www.scott-duff.com/oprods.htm

 

[Zullo74]

1KPerDay,

That's easy. You go to the CMP website and you read it for yourself.

http://www.odcmp.com/​

Here is a photo of the un-cut and cut types.

​

The un-cut is the top one. They cut them to relieve a possible stress crack point where the handle part meets the rod part.

 

[Zullo74]

30Cal.

I liked your link better!

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks, Zullo and 30cal.

 

[Surplussoldier]

I own a Danish Garand, Beretta manufacture, 1950s. That wouldn't have a cut op-rod, would it?

 

[Swampy]

As with 99% of all M1's, yours most likely does have a cut op-rod (Either arsenal cut or a post war rod that was made with the cut)..... BUT, as also with all M1's, there is no way to know without looking.

Field strip it and look........

Best regards,
Swampy

garands forever

 

[ScottsGT]

Update:
I tried swapping my gas cylinder from my other Garand, and it too was very loose on the barrel. I tried the loose gas cylinder on my other Garand and it was VERY tight. Matter of fact, I didn't even try to force it on since it was so tight. So my conclusion was that the '43 barrel was worn down. So as per the pinging instructions I read on one of the Garand how to sites, I placed a socket into the barrel groove and tapped on it with a hammer. Did all 3 grooves, visually you cannot see any pinging marks, but the gas cylinder now fits very snug. I also borrowed the cut op rod from the other Garand to take it out this weekend to do some shooting and see how things work out.

Swampy, I do have one more question for you though. If you look at my third photo down of the chamber, you can see where the bolt goes into the back of the barrel. Look at the 12:00 o'clock position. You can see where the metal is burred from the bolts extractor hitting it. The bolt wants to hang up on this when closing. Is this normal wear? Possably because at one time a different bolt was installed in this receiver that did not create these wear marks and not the bolt installed has to be used to "break" the parts in together? The bolt will close, it just won't fall into place with the op rod spring removed and rocking the rifle muzzle down.
Thanks all!

 

[Swampy]

Scott,

The burr on the back of the breech from extractor impact is pretty common.

If it interferes with operation you can remove it with a Dremel and a small round stone. Do this CAREFULLY so that you only remove enough to get full clearance.

BE SURE to thoroughly clean the breech, mag well and bore before shooting again. Grindings and stone dust are NOT good on moving parts and would play merry H##L with the bore.

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever