Garand loads

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LUCKYDAWG13

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I asked the Hornady Teck for some loads for Garand 30/06 using IMR powders
4064 and 4895 with 150gr bullets these are the loads they sent me

The 150gr bullet is a great choice in the M1. I would recommend IMR 4064 starting at 41.4gr to a max of 47.2gr. The IMR 4895 starting at 39.6gr to a max load of 47.1gr.

my question is will the start loads cycle my Garand I'm asking because my
rifle range is 70 miles from my house and i would like to make up maybe
25 rounds or so just for sighting in ( this is a new to me rifle ) and then just
work my way up 8 rounds at a time until i find what shoots best
just trying to save some time and powder
thank you
 
Something is not quite right about this. Hornady load data for the M1 Garand Service Rifle. You may want to note that the loads you posted for a 150 grain bullet are exactly the loads for a 168 grain bullet. Something is very wrong. The link I provided are the loads for the M1 Garand directly from the Hornady 9th Edition page 447 and 448. I suggest you review the link.

Additionally:
The IMR 4895 starting at 39.6gr to a max load of 47.1gr.

Again, that is load data for a 168 grain bullet. Right out of the Hornady 9th Edition page 447.

Will any of those Minimum Loads cycle your M1 Garand? A correct load should I am not sure of what you posted. With 150 grain bullets they may be light loads. Correct loads should cycle any M1 Garand meeting all service specifications. They may not cycle a rifle with for example worn gas piston (under sized), worn gas cylinder (over sized), too strong of a operating rod spring, and the list goes on to include incorrectly lubricated or greased rifle.

Anyway, while 150 and 168 grain bullets (as well as others) are very good shooting in the M1 Garand the load data you posted is exactly out of the book for 168 grain and not 150 grain bullets.

Another good source of M1 Garand load data is the Master Po's M1 Loads Courtessy of the NRA load data.

Ron
 
thank you for pointing that out the loads that i posted were given to me from the Teck
at Hornady i copied the Email in my post I have the 9th edition in my hand now you are 100% right i will re-email them just looking for a IMR 4895 load using a 150gr bullet
 
More than welcome, for bullets in the 147 to 155 grain neighborhood, using IMR 4895 I like right around 49.0 grains and right around = +/- 0.5 grain so 48.5 to 49.5 of IMR 4895. However, wait and see what Hornady suggest in IMR 4895. That 49 grains is also for average commercial brass cases. That 49 grains will cycle a healthy M1 Garand rifle just fine. For heavier military brass like the older LC (Lake City) I was running 47.0 grains of IMR 4895 below a 150 grain BTHP.

Ron
 
thank you what i'm looking for is a start load to a max load so i can work up my own load if i get a reply back i will post
 
Much appreciated, I would be curious as to what they suggest. Purely a guess but around 44 to 45 grains I once heard the maximum to be 52 but never had any need to try it so I would be curious as to their suggested load range.

Thanks
Ron
 
48 gr of IMR 4895 pushes a 250 gr FMJBT @ 2703 fps out of a 24" barrel (@40,640 psi), very closely replicating M2 Ball. A 39.6 charge would be about 2260 fps (@ 25,159 psi)
I wouldn't count on that cycling reliably. A 47.1 gr charge will give you about 2656 fps and 38,629 psi and should cycle OK.
 
I know common practice is to start low and work up but a 70 mile trip is tough to do only to find the ammo fails. The load I use is slightly lower than many people load for the Garand but it is easily powerful enough to cycle the M1. I load 46.5gr of either IMR4895 or H4895 under a 150gr bullet because of accuracy in my rifle. H4895 is slightly more accurate for me. The more common standard load is 47.5gr IMR4895.
 
The accuracy node for my two Garands and b/a is 48.0grn of H4895 and 49.0grn IMR4895 with the Hornady 150fmj. The WW2 load for the Garand was 50.0gr of IMR4895, in heavy thick brass, so anything down to about 46.0grn will work the actions.
I use 46.5grn H4895 with 165/168.
I too find H4895 to be a bit more accurate than IMR4895 or 4064. Easier to measure too.
Seat the Hornady bullet to 3.250", no crimp. Cannelure is set for .308/7.62, not '06.
For 200yd Garand matches, I use the 150fmj. I and my guns can't shoot the difference. At 600yds, it's a different story however. My older brothers match Garand with Lapua Scenars in Lapua brass will give my RRA match AR15 w/80gr Sierra's a hard run for its life!
Maybe We'll run across each other at Talladega!
 
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46.0grn of IMR4064 with a 150grn FMJ bullet @ 3.20" has always been spot on for me. I've tested 45.5 to 47.5grn. All cycle my M1 but 46.0 gave me the best accuracy.
 
Using military 150 FMJ-FB or Hornady 150 FMJ's with IMR 4895, RP 9 1/2 primers, LC, RP, Win, or Greek HXP brass a load from 46-47.5 grains of IMR 4895. I see no need to start below 45 grains with any primer or case used. You could load just a few from 42-45 but you'll get low velocity and big velocity variation and just possibly cycling issues? 48 grains of IMR 4895 with 150 gr. bullets should be considered maximum for your Garand. 48 grains isn't maximum for 30-06 but is as high as you want to go in Garand.
 
The 150gr bullet is a great choice in the M1. I would recommend IMR 4064 starting at 41.4gr to a max of 47.2gr. The IMR 4895 starting at 39.6gr to a max load of 47.1gr.

Actual GI ammunition was quite low pressure:

A TEST OF Herter-glass bedding in the M1 rifle.

Dates of Test 29 February to 6 April 1956
Test Conductor: Larry Moore

Section II. C:
The following data were reported by Frankford Arsenal on a test of Cartridge,
Ball, Caliber .30, M2, Lot T-40915 (surveillance test conducted on 29 June 1954),

Velocity 2759 fs
Std. Dev. 23.9 fs
Mean Pressure 43000 psi
MR Accuracy 4.41 in. at 600 yds.
Ex. Vertical 12.6 in.
Ex. Horizontal 9.7 in.
Ex. Spread 13.4 in.

I received a paper copy of this report from a fellow competitor who knew Larry Moore. It is my recollection the pressure and velocity data came out of pressure barrels, therefore the velocity is a bit high compared to actual GI ball ammunition fired in Garands. Powder technology advanced quickly in the late 1930's through WW2. The original specification for the 30-06 had a velocity and pressure limit. As long as the bullet traveled fast enough, provided the gas necessary to operate the action, the 50,000 psia breech pressure requirement almost became a moot point. Breech pressures would always be less. Progressive powder technology produced that velocity at greatly lower pressure than WW1 powders. Weapons in inventory had sight adjustments for the 150 grain bullet and no one was interesting in changing out all the sights out there by changing the velocity. Besides, it is a real advantage to keep pressures down in weapons. We have been lead to believe, in the popular press , that high pressure is desirable, because these guys are selling magnums and other high performance products. I am going to say it is advantageous to keep pressures down and if you can do the same job at less pressure, the fewer problems you will have.

Now I have shot and chronographed many rounds in my Garand. I consider 47.5 grains IMR 4895 a maximum load with a 150 grain bullet. The action is structurally strong enough to hold more pressure, but the gas system will have issues. A bud of mine recently fired Federal American Eagle in his rack grade Garand, (all GI) and he had operating rod dismounts, and his trigger guard unlatched! We convinced him to use the Federal “Garand” ammunition and his rifle stopped malfunctioning.


M1 Garand Rack Grade , Sammy’s rifle



150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 WWII weight sorted brass. OAL 3.290"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F

Ave Vel = 2619
Std Dev = 28
ES = 101
Low = 2559
High = 2660
N = 16



M1 Garand Rack Grade, Kurt’s Rifle




150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 WWII weight sorted OAL 3.30"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F

Ave Vel = 2630
Std Dev = 33
ES = 109
Low = 2580
High = 2689
N = 16


I was surprised to see just how low the velocity of the 1966 ball ammunition was in a douglas match barrel.

M1 Garand BMR 9633 Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist


150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball

14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F

Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N = 8


174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10

Accurate Arms AA2495 is a copy of IMR 4895 and grain for grain, I have seen any velocities differences worth a hoot in the 30-06. The other GI bullet was a 175 FMJBT. If you keep your velocities less than or equal to 2640 fps with a 175 bullet, you won’t have any issues. I shot literally tens of thousand of 168 match bullets, and data with AA2495, IMR 4895, and IMR 4064 are below. Do not exceed these loads. However, cutting them a grain or two won’t hurt a thing.

M1 Garand Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist



168 Sierra Match 47.0 grs AA2495 wtd WLR FC Cases OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F
Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 16
ES = 50
Low = 2616
High = 2666
N = 10


168 gr Sierra Match 47.0 AA2520 WWII cases WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2658
Std Dev = 35
ES = 85
Low = 2612
High = 2697
N = 5

168 gr Sierra Match 48.0 IMR 4064 wtd LC66NM WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2594
Std Dev = 18
ES = 38
Low = 2575
High = 2613
N = 5



168 gr Sierra Match 49.0 wtd IMR 4064 LC66NM WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2669
Std Dev = 27
ES = 65
Low = 2651
High = 2716
N = 5

175 Sierra Match 47.0 grs AA2495 wtd CCI 34 R-P Cases OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2631
Std Dev = 8
ES = 23
Low = 2617
High = 2640
N = 5




ReducedNMGarandfulllength.jpg

IMG_0003M72LCMatch30-06.jpg
 
My Garand cycled fine with 44 grains of IMR 4895 under a 150 grain Hornady FMJ/BT. I've never tried less. Usually I load 46 grains now.

I'm not really fond of the Hornady FMJ/BT, because the cartridge length ends up being kinda short for the Garand, compared to milsurp 30-06, IIRC 3.200" versus 3.340".
 
My Garand cycled fine with 44 grains of IMR 4895 under a 150 grain Hornady FMJ/BT. I've never tried less. Usually I load 46 grains now.

I'm not really fond of the Hornady FMJ/BT, because the cartridge length ends up being kinda short for the Garand, compared to milsurp 30-06, IIRC 3.200" versus 3.340".
It's only short if you seat them to the cannelure, which you don't need to.

Hornady's Garand data is verrrry conservative. Starting charges for 4895 in the 30s.

Around 47 grains will get you close and will probably be very good.
 
Hornady 9th Edition data in the M1 Garand section now lists the 150 FMJ overall length at 3.185". A few editions ago they listed the same bullet with an overall length at 3.260"-3.262". That length puts the cannelure out in front of the case mouth. I've shot them at both the longer and shorter oal in Garands and see no difference in accuracy and no failures to cycle at either length. Just for info, in Hornady 9th Edition they didn't test IMR 4895 with 150 grain loads in either the 30-06 or Garand sections, only Accurate 2495 and H4895.
 
well i got no response back from Hornady after 2 days so i emailed IMR
and i got this I am sorry but we do not do any special data for the Garand rifle. Our data is done for chamber pressures and as you know the Garand goes off of port pressure Here is data that is out of the Hornady #9 manual pages 446-448 that they have done for it using Hornady Bullets and Hornady Brass.

This would be all the data that I have.

150-155 Grain
H335 Starting 36.9 @2400 FPS Max 46.4 @2750 fps
Varget Starting 42.3 @ 2400 FPS Max 46.2 @ 2600 FPS
H4895 Starting 43.2 @ 2400 FPS Max 46.4 @2600 FPS

168 Grain
H4895 Starting 39.8 @ 2300 FPS Max 46.4 @2600 FPS
Win 748 Starting 41.1 @2300 FPS Max 48.4 @ 2700 FPS
Varget Starting 40.3 @2300 FPS Max 47.0 @2600 FPS
IMR 4895 Starting 39.6 @2300 FPS Max 47.1 @2600 FPS
IMR 4064 Starting 41.4 @2300 FPS Max 47.2 @2600 FPS
BLC2 Starting 41.4 @ 2300 FPS max 47.8 @ 2600 FPS

178 Grain
Varget Starting 37.9 @ 2200 FPS Max 46.4 @2550 FPS
H4895 Starting 38.2 @2200 FPS Max 46.4 @2550 FPS
IMR 4895 Starting 39.8 @2200 FPS Max 46.1 @2550 FPS
W748 Starting 40.1 @ 2200 FPS Max 45.3 @ 2500 FPS
IMR 4064 Starting 39.5 @ 2200 FPS Max 46.7 @ 2550 FPS
BLC2 Starting 40.4 @2200 FPS Max 47.4 @ 2500 FPS


Mike Van Dyke
Customer Service Representative
Hodgdon Powder Company
6430 Vista Drive
Shawnee, KS 66218
913-362-9455 Ext. 109

why is it that i cant find any load data for 150 /155 grain bullet that is published using IMR 4895 in a loading manual yes i can find pet loads but i
want a published start load to a max load :banghead: sorry for the rant
 
Why is it that i cant find any load data for 150 /155 grain bullet that is published using IMR 4895 in a loading manual yes I can find pet loads but I
want a published start load to a max load.

There is plenty of load data out there for 150 / 155 grain bullets using IMR 4895 in the 30-06 Springfield cartridge. The problem is you are looking for rifle specific load data. I am surprised that Hornady included what they did in the 9th Edition. Currently I don't know of another load manual that even covers the Garand or devotes as many loads as Hornady does to service rifle loads.

Figure too, many of the guys loading for the Garand work up their own loads and as you have seen here enjoy sharing them but actual published load data is scarce anymore. I can understand your frustration but you will need to start experimenting with what folks have shared as to IMR 4895 or continue to suffer.

Ron
 
Figure too, many of the guys loading for the Garand work up their own loads and as you have seen here enjoy sharing them but actual published load data is scarce anymore. I can understand your frustration but you will need to start experimenting with what folks have shared as to IMR 4895 or continue to suffer.

Ron


yes i know but it would just break my hart if i damaged this rifle
I would like to thank you all for you help on this
 
Just mind your loads and you will do fine. It's natural to worry and unlike years ago the parts have become expensive. Work from some of the more popular IMR 4895 loads. Also, don't be afraid to try some of the H4895 or Varget loads, they work quite well. That assumes you can find some of the other powders. Your concerns are normal andjustified.

Ron
 
Hornady 9th Edition data in the M1 Garand section now lists the 150 FMJ overall length at 3.185". A few editions ago they listed the same bullet with an overall length at 3.260"-3.262". That length puts the cannelure out in front of the case mouth. I've shot them at both the longer and shorter oal in Garands and see no difference in accuracy and no failures to cycle at either length. Just for info, in Hornady 9th Edition they didn't test IMR 4895 with 150 grain loads in either the 30-06 or Garand sections, only Accurate 2495 and H4895.
I stand corrected, thanks. I was going by memory and I mostly load 168 now.
 
Well i got a response from Hornady today this is it

Mr. Smith , I would suggest possibly a faster burning powder for the 150 gr. Wt. bullets, however the 168 gr. Wt. bullet data would be fine to start with for the 150 gr wt. bullets. Varget would possibly be my first choice for the light wt. bullets. Thanks

I stopped off on my way home and picked up a few pounds of H4895 just going to run with this for now Thanks to all
 
Well i got a response from Hornady today this is it

Mr. Smith , I would suggest possibly a faster burning powder for the 150 gr. Wt. bullets, however the 168 gr. Wt. bullet data would be fine to start with for the 150 gr wt. bullets. Varget would possibly be my first choice for the light wt. bullets. Thanks

I stopped off on my way home and picked up a few pounds of H4895 just going to run with this for now Thanks to all
The Garand is not like other rifles, do not use too slow a powder or you will probably be replacing the op-rod and they are no longer cheap.

I think your choice of H4895 is perfect. I load a 150gr bullet for my M1 with a charge of between 46.0 and 46.4gr H4895 and that produces very accurate ammo for me. I use the same charge and powder with a 168gr match bullet. I think you will be very happy with that powder. Oh, I also use a CCI #34 primer.
 
In the Garand's heyday winning service rifle matches, two things were successful in getting best accuracy. Bullets had to be a few ten-thousandths bigger than the barrel's groove diameter. One big reason why the M1 FMJBT match bullet at 173 grains mic'd about .3086" for use in NM barrels with groove diameters from .3080" to .3083". Powders had to produce uniform pressure curves and muzzle velocity with ammo loaded in high speed machines pumping out a round every 1.3 second. If you've ever toured Hornady's plant and seen those old 1940's era loading machines they got at surplus sales, you'll be amazed.

IMR4895 in bulk lots was the best compromise. While the accuracy it produced with metered charges with a 3/10ths grain spread in weight wasn't as good as what IMR4064 produced with weighed charges to a 1/10th grain spread, the cost of weighing each charge for M72 match ammo was prohibitive. With Sierra's 150-gr. HPMK bullet over IMR4895, they shot as accurate as IMR4064 produced and were often favored for short range matches.

Civilians handloading new cases using IMR4064 with a 1/10th grain spread in charge weights got better accuracy. The most accurate .30-06 Garands would test about 7 to 8 inches extreme spread at 600 yards with those handloads while the best lots NM lots of M72 arsenal match ammo shot about 12 inches ES at 600.

Some improvement with M72 match ammo was had when the 173-gr. FMJBT bullet was pulled and replaced with a Sierra or Western 180-gr. FMJBT bullet; they were more accurate than the arsenal match bullet. When Sierra changed their 180-gr. match bullet to a HPBT design, things got better using it, or their 168-gr. Int'l match bullet replacing the military match bullet. Some 30-06 M1's with commercial match barrels shot those Sierra's into 6 to 7 inches at 600 properly tested; but with IMR4064. IMR4895 was a close second, at best.

A few people used IMR4320 under Sierra 180's with excellent results. The issue was having the Garand's op rod bent, shaped then fit perfectly to remain straight with more gas port pressure slamming it back a bit harder. There were only a hand full of 'smiths that knew and did all the right stuff with op rods.

Note also, the Garand's 1:10 twist barrel was not as good for accuracy as a 1:12 one for bullets in the 150 to 180-gr. range. It's part of the reason the shorter barreled M14 rifles had 1:12 twists for the same bullet weights going out about 100 fps slower.

Nobody got best accuracy with any ball powder.
 
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