Garand questions again.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Guy B. Meredith

Guy B. Meredith

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
2,383
Location
Salem, Oregon
I finally made the budget leap and sent an order for a CMP M1. What should I be looking for in the way of tools, etc. to care for the Garand?

I am almost strictly a revolver shooter (just traded in my Ruger MK512 for a Mossberg Persuader) so am ignorant when it comes to semi autos. I imagine I have a lot to learn about gas driven autos.

Also Which commercial ammo is considered fodder for the Garand? For target, other purposes of which I may not be aware? Does it need /can it be prepared for a larger range of ammo? I understand it favors bullets of about 170 gr. Pressure curve ins and outs?
 
Dewey cleaning rod for 30 cal service rifle (30CF25)
Dewey delrin muzzle guide for Garands
The Scott Duff books (http://www.scott-duff.com)

Currently, it is the general consensus that all commercial ammunition is too hot for the Garand. PMC does advertise an M2 load in their catalog that uses a 150 FMJ at 2770fps (item # 3006C, http://www.pmcammo.com/ballistics/rifle_ballistics_3006.php), but I don't think it's out yet.. The CMP sells two types of ammo at the moment that is Garand safe. The first is surplus Lake City .30-06 M2 Ball ammo delinked from belts for machine guns. The second is ammo is made by Federal Cartridge through a contract for the CMP. This ammo is not sold anywhere else and is only available through the CMP.
 
Tools.
Necessary:
A M3-A1 combination tool. This is the tool with the attached chamber brush.
With this tool you will:
Clean the chamber.
Adjust the rear sight's tension.
Disassemble the bolt when it's out of the rifle.
Disassemble the bolt when it's IN the rifle.
Disassemble the gas cylinder.
Disassemble the rifle.
Extract jammed cartridge cases.

A stainless or coated Service Rifle cleaning rod. This is a one piece, high grade rod that's the exact length to clean the M1.

A muzzle guide or protector for the rod to prevent wearing the M1's critical muzzle.

Grease. The recommended GI grease is Lubriplate or Plasti-lube. You can get both from Brownell's, but in truth, about any good water proof, heat proof grease will do.
Oil is NOT used to lube the M1. Oil is a rust proofer. GREASE is the lube.\

A GI manual. You can buy these, or get them free online.

Good quality bore brushes, patches, and a good copper removing bore solvent.

Hit the gun shows and look for the military parts sellers. Check them for extra chamber brushes for the m3-A1 combination tool. These are often worn out, so a replacement is nice to have. NEVER wrap a patch around the brush to wipe the chamber. This will "spring" the bristles and ruin the brush.

A sling.

Nice to have:
The GI butt stock cleaning kit. The GI sectioned rod is for emergency field use ONLY.
It wears the muzzle too much for regular use.

Ammo:
The best ammo is GI ammo OR GI-spec ammo.
Be careful about using commercial ammo since it's often loaded with different burn rate powders and this can damage the M1.

DO NOT shoot any ammo with bullets heavier than the 173 grain GI Match bullet.
The M1 is "balanced" to shoot GI powders and bullets lighter than the 173 grain, and shooting ammo with different burn rates or heavier bullets can bend the op rod, or do other damage.

Many people have OK luck with the Korean GI spec ammo, or Federal 150 grain military pack type ammo.

FREE MANUALS:
http://www.surplusrifle.com
http://www.biggerhammer.net

Good general M1 info:
http://www.fulton-armory.com
 
I second the M3-A1 tool. I've dug out many a jammed Olympic cartridge with it!
 
You can reload for the Garand and you can search for reloading receipes for the M1. There are specific powders, bullet weights and grains to use for effffectively duplicating an M2 Ball load.

A good supply of en bloc clips will be a big help. Yur Garand will come with one but having a few dozen will be a big help for trips to the range.

One way to get a good supply of clips is to buy some of the Korean "KA" headstamped ammo. Typically this ammo comes in clips and bandoleers. But be advised this is corrosive ammo and you will need to do a good cleaning immediately after shooting.

Using hot water or even Windex with Ammonia will stop the corrosive action of the salts in the primers. Spray hot water or the Windex liberally on the bolt face and the chamber, wipe it down and then clean the rifle in the usual fashion once you get home. After using a supply of KA ammo to get the clips, I would not shoot anymore of it until you need to add to your supply of clips.

Korean M2 Ball ammo with a "PS headstamp is non-corrosive and is about as accurate as the Lake City ammo sold by the CMP. It is typically sold in 20-round boxes. There are some lot numbers of the PS ammo that should be avoided. Check this link for information on PS ammo: http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10552

The American Backyard Forum took over the old BattleRifles forum and Amback has a separate section devoted to the Garand. Lots of good information there.

Hope you get an excellent rifle from the CMP. I have a April 1941 SA Garand that was one of the last Danish returned rifles with the Danish VAR barrel that the CMP sold. It's a lot of fun to shoot and gets lots of comments at my range. We have a few WWII and Korean War vets show up and I usually try to keep a clip or two held back if these gentlemen (and heros!!) come over to talk to me. They always get a chance to shoot if they want.
 
I shoot nothing but reloads for my revolvers, but then they are not choosy. If I do enough shooting and probably will, I'll search out the M1 formulas and purchase the dies. Hate chasing ammo. And brass for that matter, but I'll try to put up with it for this semi auto for sake of historical interest.

Thanks for the links. I am putting my shopping list together. Probably ought to wait a bit and see what condition the purchase is in. Never know what might need to go on the list.
 
All the above is great. Korean Ball ammo shoots well and is reletively inexpensive, M-2 ball.
If you are reloading DO NOT EXCEED 50,000 cup
and stick close to the 150 gr. bullet, no 180gr high pressure or you will find parts like a yard sale.
 
The BEST way to get brass and clips is to attend CMP-sponsored matches, and buy the surplus ammo for each match. Keep the expended brass and clips (and the bandoliers it's issued in) and reload with a good riecipe approved for the M1 -- my favorite is 45 grains of IMR4895 loaded behind a 150 grain bullet.
 
The BEST way to get brass and clips is to attend CMP-sponsored matches, and buy the surplus ammo for each match. Keep the expended brass and clips (and the bandoliers it's issued in) and reload with a good riecipe approved for the M1 -- my favorite is 45 grains of IMR4895 loaded behind a 150 grain bullet.
Click to expand...

Not all clubs let you keep the clips anymore. I believe CMP Club ammo now comes in cartons without clips. My club now issues 2 clips to the competitors on the line and expects them to be returned at the end of the match. We just don't have enough clips to give them away anymore.

Good thing for me though that I shot ALOT of CMP clinics when they did let you keep the clips. Between that and the clipped ammo I bought from the CMP, I should be set for life.
 
anyone know of any .30-06 hunting ammo that will work in the Garand? I use the Winchester Ballistic tips in my CETME, just so theres no lead nose to deform...


anyone? :)
 
Most commercial grade hunting ammo is loaded to much greater pressures than the military ball ammo. The higher pressure can easily cause problems in the M1 gas system like bending or breaking the op-rod.

You might want to look at reloading using specific powders and a softpoint bullet in a weight range close to the 150gr bullet as used in ball loads. Most all of the major bullet manufacturers should have suitable hunting bullets.

Two and three round en-bloc clispare available so if there is any state hunting regulations regarding limitations on the number of rounds you can load, those should solve that.
 
Hmmm. This may be a heretical question here, but if the major problem with commercial ammo is pressure levels that damage the op rod, are replacement high strength op rods available to "drop in" (haven't been into an M1 do don't know how complex that is) for high pressure ammo?
 
You could just look around for a Garand that's been converted to 7.62x51 NATO and avoid most of the above mentioned pitfalls.

FWIW, I bought my Arlington Ordnance converted M1 at a local show for $469+tax, closely comparable to the price of a 'rack-grade' CMP. Besides having a new commercial barrel, the op rod had been reworked with a new piston which was fitted to the gas cylinder, mag well fitted with the spacer block, and all metal refinished in Milspec Parkerizing.

Surplus .308 is still cheap and plentiful. No special clips or whatnot needed. Notable dearth of corrosive priming in it, too.

Because I like to shoot some Match-spec ammo through it every now-and-again, I installed an adjustable gas plug to regulate op rod velocity, etc. Cost was $39.95 from Midway. Also usable on .30/06 version, and highly recommended.

"Everybody ought to have at least one Garand" said Mr. Mitty, grinning broadly.
 
More details on the adjustable plug? Maybe web site for Schuester? (Tons that look like the web site, but are vendors.)

I see one claim for 2600 psi reduction in pressure on op rod--what does this translate to in terms of ammo power curve/velocity/bullet weight.

This may or may not be interesting in actuality, but one of my sticking points with semi autos is their finicky diet and it would make me more comfortable to have more options.
 
So far, Fulton Armory seems to have a wider range of parts. That is also the only place I see 8-shot clips for sale.

Are there any caveats on purchasing items from any of the vendors?
 
I don't have any contact info for Schuster per se. I bought mine from Midway.

There are two basic versions with one being legal for CMP Service rifle competition as it maintains the same appearance and configuration of the original (CMP 4th Edition #4-13-2-b). Both work in essentially the same fashion by allowing you to control the volume of gas in the cylinder, thus regulating op rod speed and giving you a certain amount of affect on barrel harmonics.

Midway part numbers: #777-146 Schuster Manufacturing M1 Garand Adjustable Venting Gas Plug (CMP-legal model) $29.95

#855-569 Schuster M1 Garand Adjustable Gas System $37.95
This is the one I have. As I no longer compete, I opted for this model as it doesn't need the Allen wrench for adjustment. One less thing to remember to stick in the range bag.

Sorry I can't confirm or deny any claimed tech data figures. All I can tell you is that with some trial and error I can find my idea of optimum functioning and get more consistent group sizes with any given loading that I've tried using bullets up to and including 180 gr.
 
Up until WWII really got going, the standard ammo was a 173gr FMJ (M1 Ball) when it was replaced by the 150gr FMJ M2 Ball. I personally would feel OK about firing commercial 145-150grs FMJ loads, but would at least check to see that the advertised velocity is in the 2750FPS neighborhood. 168gr HPBT Match loads are OK too.

For hunting, I would use a 165gr hunting bullet on top of one of the standard match loads advertised for the 168 HPBT (IMR4895 or 4064 loaded for ~2600FPS).

Bill Ricca is an excellent vendor (http://www.billricca.com/). Barb King (http://www.bbkingssales.com/) and Orion7 (http://www.m1garandrifle.com/) are others I would use. Fulton is good, but pricey. Be careful with parts at shows and on eBay. There are lots of refinished parts that look new, but ain't.

Ty
 
150gr Winchester Ballistic Silvertip in .30-06 has a muzzle velocity of 2900fps....

too much?
 
Op-rod damage is caused by excessive gas port pressure, not breech pressure so powder burn rate is a major concern. Heavy bullets tend to use slower powders, thus higher port pressure. If port pressure is too high, op-rod can be bent. I would expect the adjustable vented gas plugs would prevent this problem if set properly for the ammo being used.

If you reload, powders in the 4895 burn range are indicated for the M1. US GI M2 ball uses a 150 grain bullet at around 2700 fps muzzle vel.; M72 Match ammo used the 173 gr. bullet loaded to 2640 fps.

Regards,
hps
 
If you 'roll your own' ammo

Copy & Paste from Hodgdon’s website re: powder for .30-06 loads for the Garand

If loads are to be used in a semi-auto, especially the Garand, H4895 should be the powder of choice to protect the operating rod. The gas system of the Garand was designed to use the amount of gas produced by H4895 for proper function.

Federal says that their 150-gr FMJ ammo (American Eagle brand) is OK to use in the M-1 Garand, along with the 168-Gr "Gold Medal Match" ammo.

DO NOT USE ANY AMMO WITH A HEAVIER BULLET THAN THESE. YOU WILL BEND/BREAK THE OP-ROD AND OTHER NASTY STUFF.

Never mind HOW I know, I just know...ask me about some custom 180-gr handloads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top