Gas Piston Kit For New AR....

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Rubber_Duck

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I've decided on getting another AR-15 and after almost buying a Ruger SR-556, I decided to ditch the weight and rails and go back to something more handy and lightweight.

I've decided my next AR is going to be a Colt 6520 (only because BCM doesn't make a lightweight-barreled A2 carbine upper) with a Geiselle SSA trigger and a gas piston retrofit kit. No rails, scopes, bipods, lasers, coffee pots, etc. Just plain and simple.

I've narrowed it down to two choices for the gas piston kit. I'm going with either the Bushmaster conversion or the Osprey Defense OPS-416. Both are drop-in conversion kits that allow me to keep the standard front sight base, and at this moment I'm leaning a little more towards the Bushmaster because I've found more reviews on it, all positive, while I haven't been able to find any end-user info on the Osprey Defense kit. The two kits are close enough in price that price does not play a role in the decision.

Has anyone used the Osprey Defense kit? Or the Bushmaster? Or maybe both? What can you guys tell me about each and why I should choose one over the other?

Thanks.
 
So if you're going for light weight why add the gas piston.?

If you get the gas piston get the one from the company that's going to be around for as long as you have the rifle. Don't be like the fools that need parts for their Rhino kits.

BSW
 
I'll stick with the one I'm used to - the good old A2.
Take a 6.5 lbs. rifle and add about 3.5 lbs worth of phlegm. Fix something that never has been an issue, wow.:rolleyes:
I Love gas pistons, don't get me wrong. The FN-49 and FAL work great with them.
They also use a mans:evil: round. A little extra weight works in the rifles favor.
I want my AR15 to be light as possible. With as long as a barrel as feasible.
 
First off, gas piston kits add weight.
2nd, we are have tons of reliability issues with gas piston converted AR's.

Carrier tilt, rubbing on hand gards, and stuff just plain falling off. You name it, nothing but bad luck. And they never go down on a range day, only during comps and training days which adds to the fustration.

I think If you have to have a piston on the barrel instead of in the BCG your better off going to a completely different weapon system like a Robinson XCR, Bushmaster ACR, Sig 556, etc.

I'd stick with DI, at least we know how to keep those reliable.
 
Well, the Colt 6520 weighs in at 5.8 pounds, and a gas piston kit should add about a pound to that at most, so it will still be a lightweight rifle compared to what I have now. And I'm willing to take my chances with the gas-piston kit, I've read good things about them and my purpose in owning one is easier cleaning (as in keeping the bolt area cooler and cleaner. Note I never said anything about reliability).

But it seems like Bushmaster will be around longer than Osprey Defense considering I've never heard of Osprey. So that answers my question, thank you.
 
A piston is easier to clean than a whole bolt, bolt carrier, locking lug area, and interior upper receiver. So I should re phrase my statement in my previous post to 'I'd like to move the fouling away from the upper receiver area.'

I understand the negative response towards gas-piston ARs but I have no experience with one but would like to try it out with a reliable conversion kit.
 
Get an AR or other weapon with a factory Piston System. The only real benefit to a Piston gun over a di gun is reliability over long periods without cleaning. You still have to clean all the same parts and the extra piston kitit will just be less dirt on those parts. That doesn't make cleaning easier. LWRC, Ruger, HK and many other companies make AR's with gas pistons pre installed and if you have problems you can complain to someone if it doesnt work. To tell you the truth there are many better systems out there than the AR. SCAR, XCR, and soon to be ACR are all improvements in almost every way over a standard AR. Today there is no benefit to owning an AR besides part availability.
 
Recommend anyone considering an AR watch some of the vids from nutnfancy.

This one is especially worth watching if you are considering a piston gun. It gives a good, unbiased look at both piston and DI systems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo



Personally, I'll pass on the piston systems until they have more history of use (in the AR platform or course) and there is a more uniform/non-manufacturer-proprietary piston system adopted which should allow for the wide availability and lower cost of parts we've seen with the DI AR systems.


Love the piston concept in an AR, but want to see more history and standardization first.
 
Rubber Duck, I have two gas piston ARs both made by POF (P-415 and P-308) and they're rock solid systems. I also have a DPMS DGI upper on a Bushmaster lower and that rifle is rock solid too. The BM system is the POF Gen I system and if installed correctly you shouldn't have any problems with it. Both of my POF ARs needed a BCG break-in period due to the NP3 coating on the internal parts but if you're using the original BCG this won't be a problem for you. I learned from the P-415 to single load for the first 30 rounds or so to avoid crushed cases and frustration. After the NP3 coating wore in, both rifles are 100% reliable with reloads or factory ammunition.

Here are some actual numbers from the POF P-415 shown below.

POF P-415 (16" barrel) without magazine but with TROY BUIS front and rear
7lb 9-1/4oz (Compare this to Remington's new ACR with 14.5" barrel and no magazine which weighs 8lb or FN's SCAR 16S which weighs 7lb 4oz)

POF P-415 with TROY BUIS, Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x and LaRue QD LT-104 mount:
9lb 1/4oz (i.e. scope and mount weigh 1lb 7oz)

MAGPUL PMAG with 30 rounds of XM193:
1lb 2oz

POF P-415 with TROY BUIS, Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x scope, LaRue QD LT-104 and PMAG with 30 rounds:
10lb 2-1/2oz

pof_right.jpg


pof_left.jpg


berettashotgun said:
Take a 6.5 lbs. rifle and add about 3.5 lbs worth of phlegm. Fix something that never has been an issue, wow.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... odd that the POF piston system only weighs 3-1/2oz then!

pof_piston.jpg


:)
 
I would ventur to say the Bushmaster gas-piston retrofit kit weighs around 5 ounces, does anyone have an actual number? Can't seem to find it online. I know it isn't anywhere near 3 and a half pounds to add a gas piston, and the previous post confirms it.
 
my purpose in owning one is easier cleaning
Click to expand...

But now, you've added a piston assembly to clean. :D
Click to expand...

A piston is easier to clean than a whole bolt, bolt carrier, locking lug area, and interior upper receiver. So I should re phrase my statement in my previous post to 'I'd like to move the fouling away from the upper receiver area.'

I understand the negative response towards gas-piston ARs but I have no experience with one but would like to try it out with a reliable conversion kit.
Click to expand...

You still have to clean all the same parts and the extra piston kit will just be less dirt on those parts. That doesn't make cleaning easier.
Click to expand...

No offense OP, just tring to help, but you're not listening. Your premise of going the piston route for less cleaning is flawed. I have more parts to disassemble, and clean on my piston Saiga and SKS, than I do my AR. Not bashing you, I too, was very interested in the gas system. But after a few months of research, and common sense comments like this from Boba

Personally, I'll pass on the piston systems until they have more history of use (in the AR platform or course) and there is a more uniform/non-manufacturer-proprietary piston system adopted which should allow for the wide availability and lower cost of parts we've seen with the DI AR systems.


Love the piston concept in an AR, but want to see more history and standardization first.
Click to expand...

I'll stick with the original.
 
nipprdog said:
Your premise of going the piston route for less cleaning is flawed.
Click to expand...

HUH??!! It takes all of 20 seconds to clean a POF GP AR since no crap makes it to the BCG. Simply rotate the gas plug, reomove it, remove the piston and connecting rod, wipe them off with an oily rag followed by a clean rag then put 'em back as you found 'em. On my two POFs, carbon makes it about 1/3 of the way down the connecting rod (from the piston end). I spend WAY more time cleaning my DGI AR after a match than either of my POF ARs. That's because the BCG is full of carbon so I remove the carrier, cam pin, firing pin cotter pin and firing pin. I then set about cleaning everything.

If you don't want to own a GP AR then so be it but don't go making stuff up to make a point. Sadly, most of the anti GP rhetoric from members here is from those that have never owned or used one.

:)
 
Well, if I decide I don't like the piston system (which I highly doubt. If it works I'll keep it and enjoy a cleaner breech area), I can always revert the rifle back to DI and have a Colt 6520 at the end of the day. I can't turn a POF, LWRC, or Ruger into a DI, and they are at least just as expensive as a Colt AR, usually moreso, with none of the features (or lack of) to meet the criteria to be my 2nd AR.

For those who don't know I already have a DI AR-15 carbine that I built with a BCM upper, Knight's Armament RAS rail system, and a Trijicon ACOG. I'm looking for something light and handy with iron sights and therefore the Colt 6520 is exactly what I want right out of the box. I'm very fond of the traditional AR, despite advances in technology with regard to gas-piston carbine designs, so I'm deciding to stick to the AR. It's what works best for me.
 
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You could buy the POF for the price of the Colt plus the piston kit. I think the kits are great if you don't want to buy a new AR but since you are buying a new AR and want a piston system maybe you should do it right the first time and buy the AR designed for a piston setup.
 
Mags, you are right, the Colt isn't cheap and the cost of one plus the gas piston kit is as much as the Ruger SR-556 I was looking at, so I've also been considering simply getting the upper (in which case it doesn't even have to be a Colt, so long as it is a chrome-lined pencil barrelled A2 carbine of high-quality) and use my current lower, to save money.
 
If the piston......kit......only weighs in at 3.5oz, how did you manage to get a 8.8 (with 30 rounder) to 10+ pounds?

If the piston......kit......only weighs in at 3.5oz.....how do you mentally adjust your thinking to actually pay $100+ per oz?:barf:
 
berettashotgun said:
If the piston......kit......only weighs in at 3.5oz, how did you manage to get a 8.8 (with 30 rounder) to 10+ pounds?
Click to expand...

Good grief!! Learn to read and acquire some basic math skills before you make a post!! All of the required information is clearly stated above. :barf:
 
berettashotgun said:
If the piston......kit......only weighs in at 3.5oz.....how do you mentally adjust your thinking to actually pay $100+ per oz?
Click to expand...

WOW!! You should put that gem in your signature!! :barf:
 
Holy crap on a stick this thread is turning into "gas piston vs. DI" rather than "gas piston A versus gas piston B."

I think my question has been answered.
 
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