General question, Powder for the 45 ACP

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JRH6856 said:
... Bullseye was the powder used for the original .45ACP 230g FMH loads (810fps) and 4.7g gives me that.
Click to expand...
Interesting ... my standard "ball" reload is 230gr FMJ over 5.0gr of Bullseye and when firing it thru my RIA 1911 my CHRONY tells me that it is running at ~815fps.

Seems like it might be a good idea for me to (someday) CHRONY that load with all of my different 1911s to compare the speeds. ;)
 
GBExpat said:
Interesting ... my standard "ball" reload is 230gr FMJ over 5.0gr of Bullseye and when firing it thru my RIA 1911 my CHRONY tells me that it is running at ~815fps.

Seems like it might be a good idea for me to (someday) CHRONY that load with all of my different 1911s to compare the speeds. ;)
Click to expand...
5g of Bullseye gives me 830. Could be different weather conditions. different cases, different primers, different powder lots.
 
Different 5" .45 ACP barrels can have 50FPS difference with the same load. Some barrels are faster than others.
 
Recently I shot in a State Bullseye Championship, and of course, I talk to the competitors. Bullseye is still a staple among the older shooters. I used 4.0 grains Bullseye with a 200 LSWC at 50 yards, which is a very established load, and I used 3.5 grains Bullseye in timed and rapid fire. I tested this load and had consistent function and a low recoil. Until you shoot one handed standing, you have no idea just how hard it is, and how much you want a low recoiling load!.

A bud of mine who is a serious Bullseye shooter (he practices!:neener:) he used Power Pistol, which I heard is a Bullseye variant. When I told him I was using Bullseye he said "That is a good powder for plinkers!" :fire:

Chronographing this month, a gent at the range let me shoot his 200 LSWC load which used 700X. The velocity was close to 800 fps, the recoil high, but the group was outstanding.

Code: 
[SIZE="3"]
M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter 
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"
		
Ave Vel =660.6	
Std Dev =16.37	
ES =	60.28	
High = 695.6	
Low =	635.3	
N =	22	
		
functioned every round,  light recoil, accurate
		
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"

oiled cases 		
		
Ave Vel =714.4	
Std Dev =17.17	
ES =	77.2	
High = 755.1	
Low =	677.9	
N =	30	
		
 accurate		
		
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	 OAL 1.250"

oiled cases 		
		
Ave Vel =742.9	
Std Dev =9.89	
ES =	33.19	
High = 760.6	
Low =	727.5	
N =	20	
		
 accurate	

All rounds loaded on a Dillion 550B. Charge weights are the average of ten thrown charges. 	
		
[/SIZE]
 
Last edited:
I am going to agree with cfullgraf and say that all I use for my 45 ACP 230 grain ball loads is 700-X. Some years ago I bought 5 kegs of it (big square cans with the metal snap on lids) and I still have 3 of them to use up. It shoots as well or better than anything else I tried accuracy wise. Has low felt recoil to me and burns super clean if you load it near max. It meters so-so in a measure but I have a dedicated scoop for ball loads and that is repeatable + - .1 grain with a good technique so I am happy with that. I have also tried Bullseye, Red Dot, Promo, Blue Dot, Unique, W231/HP38, Autocomp, Zip, AA #5 and a few others I do not recall just now. So far 700X is the cleanest burning and that is what I want. I am sure you will find something you will like with so many choices in propellants that are out there.;) Now just to find some of them to try.:cool:
 
For accuracy with a 230 grain, I like 5.0 of Bullseye. My favorite load though is 6.5 of Unique. I think the Unique has a softer recoil impulse, and is just more fun and manageable to shoot. Might be just in my head.
But, those are the only powders ive ever tried in 45acp.
 
SlamFire1 said:
Recently I shot in a State Bullseye Championship, and of course, I talk to the competitors. Bullseye is still a staple among the older shooters. I used 4.0 grains Bullseye with a 200 LSWC at 50 yards, which is a very established load, and I used 3.5 grains Bullseye in timed and rapid fire. I tested this load and had consistent function and a low recoil. Until you shoot one handed standing, you have no idea just how hard it is, and how much you want a low recoiling load!.

A bud of mine who is a serious Bullseye shooter (he practices!:neener:) he used Power Pistol, which I heard is a Bullseye variant. When I told him I was using Bullseye he said "That is a good powder for plinkers!" :fire:

Chronographing this month, a gent at the range let me shoot his 200 LSWC load which used 700X. The velocity was close to 800 fps, the recoil high, but the group was outstanding.

Code: 
[SIZE="3"]
M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter 
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"
		
Ave Vel =660.6	
Std Dev =16.37	
ES =	60.28	
High = 695.6	
Low =	635.3	
N =	22	
		
functioned every round,  light recoil, accurate
		
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"

oiled cases 		
		
Ave Vel =714.4	
Std Dev =17.17	
ES =	77.2	
High = 755.1	
Low =	677.9	
N =	30	
		
 accurate		
		
		
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	 OAL 1.250"

oiled cases 		
		
Ave Vel =742.9	
Std Dev =9.89	
ES =	33.19	
High = 760.6	
Low =	727.5	
N =	20	
		
 accurate	

All rounds loaded on a Dillion 550B. Charge weights are the average of ten thrown charges. 	
		
[/SIZE]
Click to expand...

Thank you for the data. You must have very light recoil spring in your pistol for those light Bullseye (3.5gr) loads for the gun to cycle??
 
Thank you for the data. You must have very light recoil spring in your pistol for those light Bullseye (3.5gr) loads for the gun to cycle??
Click to expand...

No. It is my recollection that I put in a 22lb Wolff recoil spring. I rack the slide by grabbing the Red Dot. I did load some 3.7 grains load for cooler weather. My 4.0 grain load has functioned the pistol regardless of temperature.
 
I began loading .45ACP many years ago with good ol' Red Dot. Worked well. Then I tried Bullseye, and that is my go to powder now. Never had reason to try others, except a short and ill-fated flirtation with "Flammable Dirt"..... Bad mistake!
 
Then I tried Bullseye, and that is my go to powder now. Never had reason to try others, except a short and ill-fated flirtation with "Flammable Dirt"..... Bad mistake!
Click to expand...
I thought Bullseye was "Flammable Dirt" :confused:
 
Clays is a good powder for .45acp but also very hard to find right now. 3.0 grains of it with a 230g Bayou bullet will function the slide of my Glock 30S but not my G41. Bullseye is my other go to and much easier to find. 3.2 grains of it works well with the same bullet in the 30S but takes 3.5 grains for the 41.
 
Dudedog said:
I thought Bullseye was "Flammable Dirt" :confused:
Click to expand...


The true FLAMING DIRT is BLUE DOT, then it's little brother Unique (but of course Unique claims to be "cleaner burning" now.:D:fire:

Even at max loads in 357 Blue Dot spits out powder particles, I found them on the bench!
 
Rule3 said:
The true FLAMING DIRT is BLUE DOT, then it's little brother Unique (but of course Unique claims to be "cleaner burning" now.:D:fire:

Even at max loads in 357 Blue Dot spits out powder particles, I found them on the bench!
Click to expand...
Unique is clean burning...compared to Power Pistol. :uhoh:
 
I met Bullseye Bud at the range and asked him for his 50 yard load. He said the first thing to do is install an 11 lb recoil spring or his load won't function. His load is a 200 LWSC 4.4 to 4.6 grains W231, any case, any primer. I asked about small primer brass and he said it made no difference.

He said he had shot a 96 at 50 yards with this load in competition. He mentioned a 25 yard load with a VV powder, but I did not ask the charge level and I don't care to know because VV is hard to find and expensive.

He thought I was barking mad to be using a 22 lb recoil spring. :uhoh: I have always used a heavy recoil spring, way back when I was shooting a lot of IPSC and using major loads. Now I am going to ask about and find out if a heavier spring makes it difficult to shoot Timed Fire and Rapid Fire.
 
Has there been any proven results on what makes the most accurate 45 ammo with a standard 230 gr FMJRN?
Click to expand...

Because every gun is different, the answer is no!
What works beautifully in my gun, may or may not, work in yours.
Even 2 guns that were consecutively made will be different from each other.

Good luck finding that perfect sweet spot.
 
most accurate powder I've used with Hornady 230 gr is 5.1 gr Universal. Jagged one hole groups at 25. Burns very clean too
 
No. No guaranteed 'accurate' load

Faster powders give a rapid pressure rise. That means the slide is more likely to function properly and the pistol will reload itself and so on. Because the pressure rises so quickly (abruptly?) the amount of powder that can be used and stay within pressure limits is relatively low. So the resulting velocities are lower than other options. This results in lower recoil (bullet weights remaining the same).

For prepared wadcutter guns, this is important, as they usually use lower rate recoil springs (like the 11 pounder mentioned). Full charge loads will shoot well, but beat the slide against the frame something terrible and the gun will loosen up quickly.

For normal service type pistols firing something equivalent to hardball, Unique or something in the middle (pistol) burning rate is more efficient. Unique, W231 and Power Pistol will handily deliver velocity (with 230 FMJ or HP) in the 850-900 fps range within pressure levels AND give a (slightly) slower pressure rise. This (slightly) mitigates the recoil impulse and movement impact on the pistol.

Still slower powders mitigate the pressure rise and impact further, however, at some point, the pressure impulse doesn't provide enough recoil to positively function the pistol - although velocities will be impressive.

Now that I've expounded on that: All the powders can be accurate. Much of it depends on the interplay of the bullet, barrel, pistol in general and shooter. However, an accurate load may or may not function the pistol. (Which is pointless for most applications.) An accurate load may or may not beat your pistol silly and require a major rebuild every 1,000 rounds. (Which is also rather pointless.)

However, there are widespread favorites which seem to function and make a plurality of shooters happy. Bullseye is one. W231, Unique and sometimes Power Pistol make the list. No doubt the Vitavouri Oy powders have fans. Or Accurate. I remember using AA#5 for a bit and was satisfied with it.

As Hondo 60 pointed out correctly, all guns are different. There is no magic powder, bullet or spell. Or if there is, they've kept it a secret from me.
 
OK opps and I have been thinking of Bullseye as flaming dirt, on reflection Unique is worse.
I allways think of Unique as cornflakes or is that 800x :)
Thanks for the answer guys!
 
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