Getting my FFL

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These threads area always entertaining. Joe Public wants an FFL and doesn't know the slightest thing about how the industry works nor general business for that matter. Then someone links to some idiot selling free information for $40. Good for him. "A fool and his money are soon departed" is a great business model this FFL123 idiot and others like him capitalize on. [golf clap] Others chime in with misinformation that complicates the situation. Nothing gets resolved. I love gun forums.
 
If you are getting an FFL (1-3) to make money, forget it. Lets say you want that second income to be approx $30,000 a year. To make that amount of money at lets say the common 10%. You would have to gross minimum $300,000 (this does not include overhead or other costs that will eat at that 10%, down to like 4%). Most shops have to run a 35%-65% profit margine just to stay afloat. Adjust the numbers as you see fit. :what:

I have found that just selling guns and products truly does not add up to the income you desire. You will need to add services such as gunsmithing, bluing and other finishes. But, REAL gunsmithing is where it is truly at. I say real because there are so many folks out there that call themselves a gunsmith because they can tear down their own guns & put them back together with only a few parts left over, that they feel they are qualified to do real gunsmithing.:uhoh: You will also need to add services such as firearm & CCW training either done by yourself (You need to be certified in most states) or have the training contracted in. The other real money maker is a shooting range, there are unbelievable profits in that aspect, even though costs are very high as well.

You will then need VOLUMN's of those services. Selling ammo onesey - twosey will actually cost you rather than make you money as people can get their own ammo sent to them (some states do not allow home delivery of ammo). This is the same for reloading, most shops do not even have or minimally have a reloading section of Powder-primers-bullets-cases because the potential customer can get it all w/o a middleman. Also, you cannot ever stock enough items to make everyone happy. I have found I make about 5-9 times the money doing gunsmithing than I do any sales, sales are mostly done as a courtesy to the customer.

Basement dealers think because they made $40 on a $400 gun sale is good money. In the end you will find out just how much you are paying for that $40 if you follow the Fed, State and local laws.

If you applied for the license just to get good deals for yourself and a couple friends, the reform of BATFE is soon to stop that as well as the occasional basement dealer as the new reform will state a minimum quantity and or dollar amount per year to retain your 01/02 license. The reform I think is currently being tossed around in DC.

If you just want guns cheaply and sent direct to you, get a 03 C&R license. It does not allow you to run a business, but you can get some really cool guns and it also allows you discounts at many places like Midway, Sarco and Numrich to name but a few. Since it is NOT a business (it is a collectors license), when it comes up for re-license and you decline, you do not have to send in your records of incoming/disposition of the guns. The BATFE have the right to review the records for up to 7 years after end of your license.

ALL of this is just IMHO - please feel free to rip my opinion apart as I am sure will happen :D
 
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Maybe I'm one of the crazy few I work at a gun store now, I want to get an FFL mainly my reason is just to order and receive my own guns and if I can make a little money here and there great but instead of a kit I did two things to start my way.

1 Work at a firearms store

2 Started back to college for a degree in business economics ( covers accounting and business management )

Now I have some years left in school but I think that is a better way to spend the money and time than on a kit. I might still fail as a business owner but I'll still have a degree, so my money won't be wasted.

I'm also not fond of the idea of prison, so I think the experience of working in a gun store and having the knowledge of how paperwork is done ( ATF and Taxes) is very important. You realize if you're CPA screws up, you are the one going down with the ship. I may not do my own taxes (probably will to save money) but I sure want to be able to look at what my CPA is doing and know if it is right or not.
 
I want to get an FFL mainly my reason is just to order and receive my own guns and if I can make a little money here and there great

The ATF doesn't look too fondly on individuals using 01FFLs to beef up their own collection. You MUST be in business (at least doing transfers) in order to retain your license.
 
True, but all FFLs will in fact take advantage of the opportunity to enhance their own collection, WHILE operating a business. They just make sure that the ATF is told which one is the main priority behind the license.
 
I mean doing transfers and selling guns but I'm not looking to make a living at it, right off the bat.
 
The only way I have seen it done sucessfully, is starting small and building up a clientele over a two year period where you really just break even, unless you are opening a million dollar shop. I had a million dollar Gym, and am happy I got out before the crap hit the fan. The overhead will kill you. I have the ATF paperwork sitting here for a few months knocking it around myself. It seems the couple of guys that made it started out in a bay or a $200.00 a month strip mall type deal until they had a clientele. If you can sell 2 or 3 popular brands cheap enough, like Glocks, Rugers. to start at a few dollars over your cost. you may be able to grow it slowlly, but as mentoned, don't plan on supporting a family on it for a while. I would do it with a partner, and possiblly deliver the entire package, if it's still legal to do that. When I moved to FL, there was a company that came to the house filled out your paperwork, prints picture, and gave the course, and also sold guns. You don't need a CCW to buy a gun, just to carry, maybe something like that could work again. Come back in 3 days and deliver the guy his weapon and charge for the service. The company was "have gun will travel" and the busines model worked for the guy" till he retired.
 
gym ......Come back in 3 days and deliver the guy his weapon and charge for the service. The company was "have gun will travel" and the busines model worked for the guy" till he retired.
Did he retire or go to Club Fed?
Transferring a firearm is only allowed at two locations: the licensed premises or at a gun show. "Delivering" guns to the buyers home is a SERIOUS violation of Federal law.
 
Thanks Tom, he was around the Boca area for years. Good to have that info though. He must have been running them through a gun store and not disclosing what he was doing. Or selling as "used", possibly. I already had my pistol and revolver sent to a Captain in Jupiter at the time, so I just needed my forms done. He printed me took the picture and the saftey course I had from the NRA years prior. But I know he is no longer in business, as I looked him up for a friend who needed the course and all the rest done, a few years back.
 
You are getting an FFL and you have no idea how retail and wholesale supply works?

You sure you are ready for this?
 
You are getting an FFL and you have no idea how retail and wholesale supply works?

You sure you are ready for this?

Thank you - what I mentioned earlier - so many think it is all about guns and they'll just buy and sell with ZERO business experience and NO idea about taxes, insurances, business licenses, fees, record keeping, payroll, etc.............

Same thing seen on the threads about reloading for a profit...........
 
Well in my case, I have had 3 businesses in 40 years. One emoloyed 200 employees. But I was thinking more of a one man operation as several have suceeded in my area over the past year. I just haven't gone forward because of medical problems. But I do know the markup on guns, "pistols" is low. So you need to keep a very low overhead, or do a huge volume. At this time the former seems more logical than the latter. Being retired I am hoping to break even the first year, with little or no salary. I feel that is realistic. I don't think that under current circumstances that unless you are opening liquor stores, your chances are that good if you load up your start up costs. My first business, "hair salons" still do thrive in this economy, as my wife is still in that business, and women don't stop doing their hair.But I sure am glad I sold the 40,000 sq ft health club, that would be death in this economy. But the first things to go when some folks loose their job, are all the Guns,gym memberships, Collector cars, etc, to pay the mortgage and bills. Some of us are old enough to have passed that stage, but our potential clients are not. Whatever you do must make sense on paper at the lowest estimations right now, or do not do it. Even a low paying job is a paying job, my 2 cents
 
Been an FFL for many years.

yesssssss Paperwork must be right up to snuff and all I's dotted and the T's crossed with ATF stuff..

Here in my shop we own everything, pay right up front via "Chax" and go from there.

If you operating from your home and doing the gunshow thing, the ATF is eventually going to come for a visit.

Storefront, regular business hours and inventory on hand. Bound book thats up to date and accurate. 4473's all complete and in order.

Guns on the rack with price tags that will allow anyone (ATF) to easily find the guns in the A.D. book and the 4473's numbered so they too can be corelated to the books.

Everything correct, present and accounted for.

Your set and good to go.

Abreviate anything thats required and your eventually gonna get collared on it.

Snowy
 
Mr Rivers being that we are on the subject, does the markup vary more according to the MSRP, or the weapons that are more difficult to obtain, and cost more. Does a Kimber have a higher profit margin than say a Glock or M&P. Or are they all pretty much the same. I won't ask "how much" because I believe that's up to the individual to find out for themselves. But in relative terms?
Or say a $1500 dollar rifle, I would expect that you would make more profit on more expensive units. But I may be wrong if availability and difficulty obtaining certain popular or new pistols or rifles, that are in demand is a factor, thanks,
You can Pm me if you feel comfortable answering in private. I am still in the planning stages waiting for a surgery.
 
getting ffl

i owned a gun shop out of my house. you dont have to sell any guns.if you dont want to. if you sell a gun get the money first.then order the gun.never order anything without the money first. thinks kuhl
 
Would you say that 5-10% is the average profit on most guns?
Well today my doctor here in vero, "who just got his ccw, got his glock 19", I am taking him for his first lesson. He got it for HD, and also picked up the light/laser combo, I'll see which one tomorrow. But I almost fell down when he told me $422.00 for the pistol. Not with the light but $422.00 for a new gen 4 Glock 19. I won't mention the store as I don't want to start a back and forth thing, but he got his 50 bucks less than I paid. Said the place was jammed on a tuesday. I guess volume works also. I think the sherriff told him to go there, and maybe he got a deep discount, as he works Hospice here in Vero, but a heck of a deal. I didn't think they could sell that low, still much to learn.
 
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Selling guns is no different than anything else (talking buy in volume) not paper work and etc. that goes with owning a gun business. The less you buy the less the discount, look at how Wal-Mart is or was depending on your area.

Most gun shops are cheaper than Wal-Mart as they order more and sell more. The mark up on guns is really a store to store thing. A local store here I know sells Glocks for around $500 give or take. The chain store Gander MTN. is about $599 to $699 plus tax. The stores are less than a mile apart, go figure.

Of course the local store has over a mil. in inventory, so that kinda helps with pricing.
 
i owned a gun shop out of my house. you dont have to sell any guns.if you dont want to. if you sell a gun get the money first.then order the gun.never order anything without the money first.

I've never paid for a gun in advance, nor have I ever had an FFl who ordered something request me to do so......a deposit would make sense (though I've not yet been asked to pay one) but theres no way in hell I'd paid in full,in advance, for a firearm.
 
Thanks Bubbles that is what many old timers have eluded to, How the heck does a shop sell for a hundred dollars more for the same gun in the same town though. I guess people just impulse buyers. More so with guns than cars.Overhead is expected, no offense, I been in business all my life, I just really wanted to know what the expectation of profit was per unit overall. I never was asked for a deposit either, but if the guy was someone I knew and he was getting me a super deal, I could see it. I have had many shops offer to order me a firearm with no deposit.
 
Hey Guys, i have applied for my FFL and New York State dealers license. The NYS license is almost done, they are just waiting for my 4 reference letters to get back. They said they will reissue the same license # from before.

I am still waiting for my ATF inspection/meeting.

Have all the other paperwork in order including DBA, and NYS sales tax number etc.

I used to have a FFL in the same building mid 1980s.

While i am waiting, i am getting my old shop cleaned up painted and back in good repair.

Keith
 
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