Getting the most from the snubbys

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shane638

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For those of us who rely on a J frame for our self defense handgun, what are some things that we can do to maximize its' effectiveness? I realize that the J is not the gun we would want to have in a fight, but for me it is likely to be the one I have If I ever am in a gun battle.

Thanks
 
The J frame snubby is not a easy gun to shoot accurately in double action and in a stress situation it maybe harder.
what are some things that we can do to maximize its' effectiveness?
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PRACTICE !
 
Yep, the P word. But: Practice that is fun is practice that you'll do. Find a pistol league of some sort if there's one in your area. Find an IDPA club, and shoot your J-frame in the Back Up Gun side matches.
 
Yep, perfect practice makes perfect! Having said that, however, I have found that Crimson Trace grips enhance my ability to aim my 642 accurately.
 
I have a few J frames and that is what I carry 99% of the time. IMO there are four things that you can do to enhance the effectiveness of these little beasties.

1) Install a good set of carry grips or a Tyler grip. It will help you get a good hold and increase your ability to shoot as accurate as it can be expected. You might even consider Crimson Trace laser grips.

http://eaglegrips.com/secretservice.htm

http://www.t-grips.com/

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/SmithWesson/LG405/tabid/235/Default.aspx

2) I believe using Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo gives the most optimal performance from snubbies.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

3) Bianchi Speed Strips or some other type of device (speed loader, spill pouch) to conveniently carry spare ammo, you never know when you will need it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=243389

4) Practice, practice, practice.
 
For those of us who rely on a J frame for our self defense handgun, what are some things that we can do to maximize its' effectiveness? I realize that the J is not the gun we would want to have in a fight, but for me it is likely to be the one I have If I ever am in a gun battle.
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Sell the J-Frame and buy yourself a Colt Detective Special. Get an extra shot.

Just kidding. I like the J-Frame too, as a pocket carry, but for IWB I like the Colt Detective Special. In either one I carry 158 grain LSWC HP +p, i.e., the FBI load.
 
For those of us who rely on a J frame for our self defense handgun, what are some things that we can do to maximize its' effectiveness? I realize that the J is not the gun we would want to have in a fight, but for me it is likely to be the one I have If I ever am in a gun battle.
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Sell the J-Frame and buy yourself a Colt Detective Special. Get an extra shot.

Just kidding. I like the J-Frames too, as a pocket carry, but for IWB I like the Colt Detective Special. In either one I carry 158 grain LSWC HP +p, i.e., the FBI load.
 
Practice, practice, practice.

If you have a modern J frame, at least since 2005 they have been sighted in for the 125 grain bullet. I don't know when they changed the sight regulation from 158 grain to 125, but can check out yours by shooting 158's and 125's.

For self defense, carry premium factory ammunition. They have the best performing bullets.
 
Being a neighbor of the Gold Dot factory and a retired cop I can tell you first hand that the short bbl loading work as advertised. haven't any data on the 44 Mag short bbl but all the rest work just fine.
 
IMHO, the best thing you can do is take Michael Debethencourt's snub classes, seen here: www.snubtraining.com

Not only will you learn a whole host of skills, but his lesson plan also incorporates all the different types of guns, equipment, holsters, accessories (which he provides for you to play with) so you can make informed decisions as to what works for you and what doesn't. He spends alot of money having all the latest toys available to the students so that this can occur.

You'll spend $200 on the class, and save just as much not not having to buy stuff you figured out didn't work for you by taking his class.

He takes the show on the road, so if he comes to your neighborhood, his class is worth the price. Also, if you have a number of revolver shooters in your area that might want to take the class, he might be receptive to coming out to your range, I've been told.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I plan on taking Debethencourt's snub class next spring. I usually carry a pair of 638's loaded with DPX and one speedloader and one speed strip. I would love to compete in some matches with my J but cannot find any in my area yet. I have carried every type of handgun there is, and the J is the only gun that I will carry habitually.

Thanks
 
As stated, PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND THEN GO PRACTICE AGAIN. I've been carrying J frames since 1971 and still have one on me somewhere at most all times. I have roughly 8 different ones ranging from the little 342PD up to the 60-10. I shoot them weekly, or whenever I get the chance. Trigger time is the only thing that will build confidence with any weapon......
 
This is an easy gun to carry but make sure if you have to pull it you are within 10 yards of the bad guy and you should be able to hit him.If he is out at 25 yards and he has a gun you are going to loose the gun fight unless he has a short barrel cheap auto or somthing like that.I carry a snub nose 38 all the time because it is easy to hid but I will never pull it unless I know I can hit someone
 
I think one of the best ways to practice with the J-frame is outdoors. I go out to my uncles farm and set up multiple targets. I practice drawing shooting/moving and reloading. Indoor range practice can only teach you so much. Taking slow accurate shots at a non moving paper target is alright, but not what you need to know to survive a gunfight. As far as distance shooting, I can hit pie plates at 25yrds with my 340PD without a problem. My snubbies are my always guns, and they are as lethal as any of my 1911's or combat tupperware, they just take a little more practice.
 
This is an easy gun to carry but make sure if you have to pull it you are within 10 yards of the bad guy and you should be able to hit him.

This is a matter of practice. You should be able to reliability hit a man size target at 25yards with a 2" or you shouldn't be carrying one. Inaccuracy in a snub is because of the shooter not the gun.
 
38 snuby

I don't consider a gun accurate unless I can put the bullet within a 5 inch circle at 25 yards otherwise he could shoot back and kill you.I will only shoot if I know I can drop him not just wound him unless he only has a knife.Most people can't do this with a snuby.
 
As some of you already know, I developed a training regimen this last May when I got my carry permit and began carrying a lightweight J-frame (M&P 340)

"Practice Practice Practice" is the correct mantra--and here's what I did to make that practice worthwhile.

1. Select a particular SD load, and make it the primary goal to shoot that round proficiently. For me, it was the Speer Short Barrel 38+P 135-gr. ammo. The "problem" of course, is that this round normally costs about $1.00 per round, although I found it for about $.50 a round in the LE 50 box, and it can be had for about $.30 round if one orders in qty 1000 prices on the 'net.

2. Reload your own ammo to build a cheap practice round. I sorted out the recipe for AA#5, a 140LTC bullet in both 38 and 357 Magnum cartridges to replicate the "feel" of the factory ammo. This round costs me about eleven cents a round to build. Since you can assemble a good quality basic turret reloading package for perhaps $150.00, the payback comes in as little as 200 rounds, once you have made the initial investment.

3. Use the goal-setting concept of "successive approximations" in setting your shooting goals. If your hand isn't strong enough yet to shoot a cylinderful load, build lighter handloads to accomodate your current skill level. Always set a realistic goal for the proficiency level you are at: Don't go to the range with your lightweight j-frame and a box of the 125-gr hotrods and expect to shoot a 5x5x25x5; start with, for example, the FC 38 Spl. 110-gr. load, or even with the 148-gr DEWC softball loads.

4. Set goals for your SD shooting performance. My goals looked something like this:
1. shoot to get familiar with j-frame handling.
2. Develop hand strength to shoot a j-frame comfortably.
3. set a performance goal--for example, "5x5x5x5"--5 shots / 5 seconds / 5 yards / 5" group.
4. Repetitively shoot lighter practice rounds until goal is achieved, then move the power parameter up. ​

If you set down this kind of program, you can shoot a lot, gain the skills and the habituation needed, and feel good all the time you do it. For me, I went from the 148-gr. DEWC load to the FC load, and I developed the reload "replica loads," as well as less-powder loads. I shot a lot from my 640 and a bit from my 340. At the beginning, when my hand was weak, I really didn't want to think about shooting a second cylinder of the FC 38 110-gr. load in the lightweight--not to mention the Speer 38+P 135-gr. load.

Six months later, I can now comfortably shoot the 38+P 135-gr. replica reloads in the lightweight for at least two cylinders' full. In the 640, I can go on indefinitely...and my next goal is to acclimate to the Speer 357 Magnum 135-gr short barrel load. My hand is not only stronger, but appropriately calloused, and I plan on shooting 500 rounds or so a month throughout the winter to both maintain that conditioning and to refine performance / marksmanship skills.

Jim H.
 
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Great ideas:) ! Jim, that is a well thought out training plan. Thanks for sharing.
 
Great stuff, Jim! I also agree that Michael Debethencourt's classes are ideal if you can get to one.

I spend a LOT of time at the range with my 637-2. Eagle eye at 10 yds. "Get the job done" at 15..still working on 20yrds.

I'm (if I do say so) pretty dang good at 25 - 30 yrds. with my .357 S&W Model 65-3 "K" frame. After 20 years, this baby is as crisp and reliable as the day I got her! Gunsmith friend put a perfect 1.5lb pull that is a dream! Reserved for Winter carry do to my frame. I use the Smith 637-2 most of the year here in South Central Texas. .38 JHP +P would serve me well in most any circumstance.
 
Thanks, guys. FWIW, I revisted my post above to add a few style changes and a couple of elaborations to expand on the acclimation, proficiency, and successive approximations concepts.

Here's a bit of elaboration about the reloading--

Reloading 38 and 357 cartridges for short barrels.

Speer has made a point of developing 'short barrel' PD rounds, and they are a real favorite for many of us. Early tests show a good balance between terminal performance and recoil issues, making them ideal for lightweight j-frames, or for any 2" barrelled revolver.

Further, Speer published reload recipes for using their GDSB bullets in both 38 and 357 cases. These were available in PDF files on the site for awhile, and they are now found in Speer 14. Ballistically speaking, this is a 135-gr JHP moving at about 880-900 fps for the 38 Special, and about 970-1000 for the 357 Magnum, when from a 2" barrel gun. I have verified this performance over a chronograph, as have others. It's real.

As stated in their data, the GDSB135-gr 38+P factory round can be nominally replicated with 6.6 to 7.0 gr. of AA#5 powder, a 'standard' Small Primer, and the GDSB135JHP bullets, which are available in quantities of 100 for reloading. This one shoots at about 850 fps or so from my 2" barrel j-frames, and could even be used for SD because the optimum velocity for the GDSB bullets is from about 850 to 1000. (Personally, I follow the conventional wisdom of only carrying factory ammo.) Note that the Speer recipes are at "+P" and even +P+ pressures, according to the latest SAAMI standards. They used a max pressure of 20,000, which should not be an issue for any modern revolver. They were sorted out with several different powders, but my findings are that only AA#5 really feels most like the factory round by 'subjective recoil' standards.


Those rounds will cost about 26 cents to build--mostly because the bullets now cost about 20 cent each. As a result, I developed the 140-gr. lead bullet equivalents, and I have further 'moved' the recipes to 357 cases to gain the benefits of less cylinder crud buildup in my 38/357 j-frames.

A good source for an appropriate lead bullet is Mastercastbullets.com. These bullets are the 140-gr. Truncated Cone--or "140LTC-357(8) in reload jargon. These will cost about five cents each, and Mike will size it as you request. Penn Bullets also provides excellent lead bullets, albeit noticably harder and a bit more expensive.

Inexpensive reloading gear: Without going into all the issues of hardware selection, I'll simply say that 1) when reloading handgun cartridges, you don't want a single-stage press, and 2) that the Lee Turret presses offer the benefits of both single stage presses for learning the procedures as well as auto-indexing for the turret.

A 'basic' standard Lee Turret Press Kit can be bought for about 100.00. To this you need to add the dies, a caliper, some other preferred items (I like a max cart gauge, and I really think you need a tumbler and media for cleaning)--but you could get by for about $150.00. A few months ago I priced out a complete package with the Lee Classic Cast (deluxe) press, and I included everything--and the cost at Kempf's gun shop was about $315.00 plus shipping.

Buy components sufficient to make nominally 1000 rounds. That would be about 200 pieces of brass, 1000 bullets, 1 lb. of powder, and 1000 primers. Buying locally (except for the cast bullets) will run about should make that about $135.00, I'll guess. Noticable savings can be had by buying brass in qty 1000, a "USPS Priority Pack" of nominally 2500-3000 bullets (still about 10.00 shipping, same as 1000), powder in 4-lb jugs, not one lb. and primers in qty 5000 cartons.

I buy Starline Brass almost exclusively--and even at these pressure levels, I think I can get fifteen loads out of one before retiring it. I've had no culling to do with some that have been reloaded at least seven times.

So, there's the basic overview for reloading. Good sources for buying Lee gear are Kempf Gun shop, Graf & Sons, Midway, of course, and many others.

Jim H.
 
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I love my S&W model 60 .38Spl snubby, and that's the first thing I would grab for HD/SD/carry. With lots of practice over the last 20 years with it, I'm able to but a steel silowhette (sp?) target at 50yds 5 shots out of 5 (single action, two hands).

My preferred ammo for HD is Winchester Silvertips, 125gr +Ps.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/65416-7626-169.html

Yes, they are expensive, but it's not like I'm shooting them every day. There's plenty of cheap ammo for practice, including my reloads.
 
I'd not been much of a revolver shooter 'til this year--and I got bit bad. After getting the 640 and the M&P340, I then bought an M60 / 3", then a used 442.

In following the training regimen I listed above, I've actually shot about 4500 rounds through the 640, 800 or so through the 340, and perhaps only 300 or so through the M60-3" so far.

They really are wonderful guns, and the shorter-barrel ones not only work well but look good, IMO. Meanwhile, I actually shoot the M60 better in double action, not single action. Since I come to this kind of shooting from a marksmanship background, I'm proud of that skill.

I did pick up a 686+ 4" as well, but I have barely shot it so far. If they'd only do a 510-2", I'd be delerious, I think....I remember when they closed out the initial 610s because of poor sales, and they were $299.00 ea. I thought I couldn't afford it at the time.

Jim H.
 
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