Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile!

[Poper]

“The ATF disclosed to lawmakers that it manages a database of 920,664,765 firearm purchase records, including both digital and hard copy versions of these transactions.”

From a Breitbart article: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...tockpiled-over-900m-records-of-gun-purchases/

They can't seize our guns unless they know who has them. This accumulation of records (that are NOT supposed to be kept according to law) is the first step towards a registry of gun owners. Who ever is behind this and enabling it shoulld be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then all records should be publicly destroyed.

IMHO, whenever any elected official purposely circumvents a law, they should be immediately prosecuted and if convicted, premamnently banned from public office or public employment of any kind because he has demonstrated a desire to deny others of their Civil Rights.

Elections certainly do have consequences.

 

[Rule3]

This will not go over well.

 

[Bazoo]

It will not amount to anything except more distrust of the government in our circle. Outside of the gun community, folks don't pay much attention it seems.

Edited for poor grammar.

 

[The Glockodile]

It will not amount to nothing except more distrust of the government in our circle. Outside of the gun community, folks don't pay much attention it seems.

Outside of our circle, I don't think anybody knows or cares.

 

[Will Munny]

I have been saying for years that a shadow registry likely exists. I would not be surprised if every FFL transfer since 1993 is in a database somewhere.

 

[Plan2Live]

Oh shock and surprise (exclamation point withheld). And now that it's out no one will do anything other than complain on social media. The same politicians will be reelected and those politicians will do nothing substantive, they won't file any actions or make demands. The major media sources will say "great, we need this" and the conservative leaning media outlets will give it two minutes of air time then shrug it off. Civilians will shout on social media, someone will post "Come Take It" or "I Lost All Mine In A Boating Accident" and in 15 minutes everyone will move on. No one will march on Washington or do anything even close to the Canadian Trucker Protest. Lather, rinse repeat.

 

[rbernie]

This accumulation of records (that are NOT supposed to be kept according to law) is the first step towards a registry of gun owners. Who ever is behind this and enabling it shoulld be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then all records should be publicly destroyed.

It is an interesting question; if FFLs have to turn over their records to the ATF when they go out of business (spanning back up to 20 years) - is the ATF tasked / funded to manage those records to purge them as they age out (age over 20 years)?

 

[dogtown tom]

Report: Joe Biden’s ATF Has Stockpiled over 900M Records of Gun Purchases.......................is clickbait folks.
Its not news.
It's not just "Joe Biden's ATF", but Donald Trumps ATF and every US President going back to....wait for it.........LBJ. Yeah. It was breaking news in 1968.

 

[dogtown tom]

It is an interesting question; if FFLs have to turn over their records to the ATF when they go out of business (spanning back up to 20 years) - is the ATF tasked / funded to manage those records to purge them as they age out (age over 20 years)?

While dealers can destroy 4473's after twenty years, ATF cannot. Federal law requires the ATF to store out of business records forever.

 

[dogtown tom]

I have been saying for years that a shadow registry likely exists. I would not be surprised if every FFL transfer since 1993 is in a database somewhere.

 

[dogtown tom]

It will not amount to nothing except more distrust of the government in our circle. Outside of the gun community, folks don't pay much attention it seems.

Even those IN the gun community, even those who are longtime members of THR.........don't pay attention.
Numerous threads over the years about 4473's and FFL b usiness records.

Yet today its breaking news. I dont know whether to laugh or cry. I'll do both----->

 

[CapnMac]

Well, sorry journalism is sorry.
Would be nice if we could see just what is in this "database."

What if this is just a record of how many calls came in, on what days/dates, and disposition?

This is a legitimate "database" entry:

020114142021, Operator 00431, [transaction number assigned], [result], [time on call]

This is vastly different from:

020114142921, Operator 00431, [FFL #], [name], [address], [height], [weight], [make & model], etc.

We only have breitbart's word (through a politician's tweet) that this is the super-duper extra top secret "list" that all the crime shows on TV insist exists.

"We" have to be extra careful when these sorts of "red capes" are waved at us. If deliberate, then we are meant to be distracted from some other--probably worse--thing going on.

We must always cleave to the notion that incompetence is far, far more prevalent than conspiracy and/or malice.

Malice exists aplenty as is, we need not invent any more. And we ought consider with a grain of salt any suggestions of "new" malice.

Until there is any real evidence of "reals" (e.g. personal information) in this thing, then it's an administrative summary. NICS needs hundred of operators to handle to the flow of calls to take in a million NICS requests. So, they need to be able to analyze equipment usage, operator efficiency, sufficiency, etc.

is the ATF tasked / funded to manage those records to purge them as they age out (age over 20 years)?

They'd probably love to be able to. From photos of the facility, the stuff is on pallets piled high. And, it's all "as is" which includes records from buildings that were flooded, or damaged by fire, or other weather events, and records arriving infested with vermin, particularly paper-consuming vermin.

As Tom note above, they have to keep the stuff forever.

 

[plainsdrifter]

Report: Joe Biden’s ATF Has Stockpiled over 900M Records of Gun Purchases.......................is clickbait folks.
Its not news.
It's not just "Joe Biden's ATF", but Donald Trumps ATF and every US President going back to....wait for it.........LBJ. Yeah. It was breaking news in 1968.

No kidding. It's just political propaganda and the intent is to get people all riled up against the other party.
Bidens ATF LOL

This thread should be deleted

 

[The Glockodile]

No kidding. It's just political propaganda and the intent is to get people all riled up against the other party.

Bidens ATF LOL

This thread should be deleted

Betcha it won't...

We're right wing sheeplemmings that delight in such characterizations

 

[AlexanderA]

I agree with what dogtown tom is saying. How much of that "920 million records" is dead storage from out-of-business dealers? When you have that large a potential database, the problem becomes one of data management and retrieval. In other words, they would be choking on useless information.

Sales records (one-time transactional records from years ago) have only a tenuous connection with current possession. Guns move around a lot after the first sale.

Breitbart is famous for alarmism and sensationalism. They know that gun owners will lap this stuff up.

 

[Poper]

I agree with what dogtown tom is saying. How much of that "920 million records" is dead storage from out-of-business dealers? When you have that large a potential database, the problem becomes one of data management and retrieval. In other words, they would be choking on useless information.

Sales records (one-time transactional records from years ago) have only a tenuous connection with current possession. Guns move around a lot after the first sale.

Breitbart is famous for alarmism and sensationalism. They know that gun owners will lap this stuff up.

Because eveeything these days is done electronically, saving, storing, retrieving is childs play. And even the pentagon is seriously considering doing all their computing "in the cloud". Underestimate your enemy and he will easily defeat you.

 

[Will Munny]

I agree with what dogtown tom is saying. How much of that "920 million records" is dead storage from out-of-business dealers? When you have that large a potential database, the problem becomes one of data management and retrieval. In other words, they would be choking on useless information.

Sales records (one-time transactional records from years ago) have only a tenuous connection with current possession. Guns move around a lot after the first sale.

Breitbart is famous for alarmism and sensationalism. They know that gun owners will lap this stuff up.

Sometimes they do, but many of those transactions also go through the FFL again.

 

[jmr40]

Until/Unless Universal Backgound checks are in place this is just 920 million useless bits of information. And like 95% of all news stories, from every source, much of the news is taken out of context.

 

[Poper]

Until/Unless Universal Backgound checks are in place this is just 920 million useless bits of information. And like 95% of all news stories, from every source, much of the news is taken out of context.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
"Nothing to see here. Move along."
Our government would never use any collected data or information in a nefarious fashion against The People.

 

[tuckerdog1]

One of the reasons, whenever possible, I buy FTF private sale. Here's my cash, thanks for the gun, NO RECORDS.

 

[dogtown tom]

Well, sorry journalism is sorry.
Would be nice if we could see just what is in this "database."

Form 4473's younger than age twenty, bound books.........thats it.

What if this is just a record of how many calls came in, on what days/dates, and disposition?

What calls?
Dealers dont call ATF for anything.
Background checks are run by the FBI.

We only have breitbart's word (through a politician's tweet) that this is the super-duper extra top secret "list" that all the crime shows on TV insist exists.

Breitbart is just another news outlet that doesn't do its own research. They are copy/paste "articles from other stellar newsgathering organizations.

 

[Will Munny]

One of the reasons, whenever possible, I buy FTF private sale. Here's my cash, thanks for the gun, NO RECORDS.

If I had to guess, that method is legal for less than 50% of the country.

 

[dogtown tom]

If I had to guess, that method is legal for less than 50% of the country.

You would be wrong.

 

[Will Munny]

You would be wrong.

Alright, well what is the correct % then?

 

[rust collector]

We live in an age in which keeping records and backups is easier, more successful and less controversial than attempting to eradicate. What is a normal clerk, whether working for government or the local big box store, more likely to do? It should come as no surprise.