Posted this over on autoloaders also. Been looking at a Glock chambered in .40 s&w Glock recommends no reloads due to the case not being fully supported. Anyone shoot reloads in their Glock?? These would be my own reloads, nothing hot, just good quality reloads for more shooting. Thanks
Glocks and reloads!
- Thread starter kthomk
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I know a guy who had to pull brass out of his hand when a case blew in a Glock 45acp. I posted it in an auto forum, and the Glock supporters ripped into me for even suggesting it wasn't due to operator error. The guy was using quality brass (I think it was starline) and mild reloads. Unfortunately, plastic doesn't stop the shrapnel.
From what I've gathered, it's enough of an issue that I'd be careful going down that path. If one blows, you screwed up.
From what I've gathered, it's enough of an issue that I'd be careful going down that path. If one blows, you screwed up.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Almost all manufacturers recommend not using reloads. Its not just a Glock thing. The Ruger Super Blackhawk is a strong revolver we would all agree, and Ruger explicitly recommends not using reloads in the owners manual. In case someone feels like arguing this point, please check out the top of page 14 of the owner's manual. Here is a link to it:
http://ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/InstructionManuals/10.pdf
You shouldn't use lead bullets in Glocks, because of the polygonal rifling.
As for the lack of case support, it doesn't seem to bother 1911 owners. Custom 1911s that have had a ramp/throat job don't have fully supported chambers, either.
I bet the guy who blew up his Glock accidentally double-charged a case.
http://ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/InstructionManuals/10.pdf
You shouldn't use lead bullets in Glocks, because of the polygonal rifling.
As for the lack of case support, it doesn't seem to bother 1911 owners. Custom 1911s that have had a ramp/throat job don't have fully supported chambers, either.
I bet the guy who blew up his Glock accidentally double-charged a case.
benedict1
Member
Shooting reloads--Okay in my book
It would be interesting for you to post this at www.glocktalk.com and wait for the flurry of responses. I am not trying to start an argument about this. I would just like to present a different view, based upon some personal experience.
For every shooter firing only new, factory ammo in a Glock, exclusively, there will be 100s who shoot reloads. I shoot reloads in a G21. I also shoot reloads in two Kimbers, a Ruger Blackhawk and two S&W revolvers. I load 9mm, .38 Spec./.357 Mag, .38 S&W and .45 ACP. I reload safely, using the best available published loading data and follow safe, conservative processes of press operation and try very hard to not deviate from my routine.
The warnings in all the manuals with all the new guns seems to be strictly lawyer/liability avoidance talk. I also shoot a Wilson Combat Classic, which comes new, tested with reloads and which even has recommended reloads in the manual that accompanies it. My guess is that people would agree that the folks at Wilson know a lot about how guns will perform and recognize the validity of shooting reloads in their weapons.
I tend to agree that the issues reported with non-supported chambers in Glocks seem very much like overloads that popped. Rumors of accidents and third-hand stories come up from time-to-time but really need to be pursued to some factual conclusion. At the above link to Glock Talk you will find many, many people successfully reloading and shooting .40 S&W in Glocks.
If someone is not comfortable reloading then they shouldn't do it--buy and shoot new stuff. If you're more at ease following your manual's recommendations for your gun re: the legalese, then do it. But shooting reloads is certainly not an inherently dangerous or foolhardy activity. Far from it, as thousands of shooters will attest.
It would be interesting for you to post this at www.glocktalk.com and wait for the flurry of responses. I am not trying to start an argument about this. I would just like to present a different view, based upon some personal experience.
For every shooter firing only new, factory ammo in a Glock, exclusively, there will be 100s who shoot reloads. I shoot reloads in a G21. I also shoot reloads in two Kimbers, a Ruger Blackhawk and two S&W revolvers. I load 9mm, .38 Spec./.357 Mag, .38 S&W and .45 ACP. I reload safely, using the best available published loading data and follow safe, conservative processes of press operation and try very hard to not deviate from my routine.
The warnings in all the manuals with all the new guns seems to be strictly lawyer/liability avoidance talk. I also shoot a Wilson Combat Classic, which comes new, tested with reloads and which even has recommended reloads in the manual that accompanies it. My guess is that people would agree that the folks at Wilson know a lot about how guns will perform and recognize the validity of shooting reloads in their weapons.
I tend to agree that the issues reported with non-supported chambers in Glocks seem very much like overloads that popped. Rumors of accidents and third-hand stories come up from time-to-time but really need to be pursued to some factual conclusion. At the above link to Glock Talk you will find many, many people successfully reloading and shooting .40 S&W in Glocks.
If someone is not comfortable reloading then they shouldn't do it--buy and shoot new stuff. If you're more at ease following your manual's recommendations for your gun re: the legalese, then do it. But shooting reloads is certainly not an inherently dangerous or foolhardy activity. Far from it, as thousands of shooters will attest.
gator378
Member
Glock reloads
For my Glock 20, 10mm, I replaced the Glock barrel with a Barstow barrel. No more "smileys" or bulges.
For 40 Glock S&W owners, if I reloaded, I would swap the Glock barrel out for Barstow or equivalent.
Problem solved.
I left the Glock 21, 45 ACP, barrel alone. No problems with the low pressure rounds.
For my Glock 20, 10mm, I replaced the Glock barrel with a Barstow barrel. No more "smileys" or bulges.
For 40 Glock S&W owners, if I reloaded, I would swap the Glock barrel out for Barstow or equivalent.
Problem solved.
I left the Glock 21, 45 ACP, barrel alone. No problems with the low pressure rounds.
I just asked this question here a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=248488
Judging from the guys who have loaded thousands of trouble free rounds I concluded it's OK and the KBs are internet hype based on someone's screwup.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=248488
Judging from the guys who have loaded thousands of trouble free rounds I concluded it's OK and the KBs are internet hype based on someone's screwup.
I've been reading reports of Glock 40 KB's since its introduction in 1990, longer than the internet has been around, yes there still was a discussion community in those days before Al Gore 
invented the internet. There was enough KB's with factory ammo for most of us to realize its not just bad reloads doing it. Now lets put it into perspective. There are probably tens of thousands of of Glocks sold and in service. Few of the KB's result in severe injury, mostly just a ruined gun. I personally can't remember off the top of my head any resluting sever injury from a Glock KB. If you want to play the odds, its unlikely that you'll suffer a KB in your Glock if you use reloads. The odds are probably much better than the Power Ball and we know people do win the lottery. KB don't happen every day, but they do with more regularity in Glock 40's and .45's than any of the other common handguns in use.
FWIW a heavily throated 1911 isn't immune from case failure KB's. While I've never seen one first hand I've had known of a few second hand.
invented the internet. There was enough KB's with factory ammo for most of us to realize its not just bad reloads doing it. Now lets put it into perspective. There are probably tens of thousands of of Glocks sold and in service. Few of the KB's result in severe injury, mostly just a ruined gun. I personally can't remember off the top of my head any resluting sever injury from a Glock KB. If you want to play the odds, its unlikely that you'll suffer a KB in your Glock if you use reloads. The odds are probably much better than the Power Ball and we know people do win the lottery. KB don't happen every day, but they do with more regularity in Glock 40's and .45's than any of the other common handguns in use. FWIW a heavily throated 1911 isn't immune from case failure KB's. While I've never seen one first hand I've had known of a few second hand.
And I'd bet you are wrong. Not that either of us can prove it now.Lone_Gunman said:
Someone always raises the bs flag, but, a buddy of mine who has reloaded enough to actually wear out parts on his 550 was there observing closely. The gun was new, the reloads mild, and making a consistant pop and then a funny sounding pop, and then the owner had this dumbfounded look on his face (like WTFWT) and a bleeding hand.
The guy is a meticulous reloader, which by itself doesn't mean he couldn't screw up. But my friend who was observing knows all too well what a hot load sounds like and what a case blowout feels like. He swears it was not a hot load, and if he had any question about it I wouldn't bother posting the incident.
I figure he got a case that was just a little thin in the unsupported area.
FieroCDSP
Member
Don't own a Glock, but I have a S&W Sigma .40. I loaded some low pressure 135gr loads and had little to no bulging in the cases, despite the non-fully supported chamber. I don't know if I'd go anywhere near a max-load, but I'd probably try some better 155's in it. I guess it depends on what you're comfortable holding in your hand. If ten or twenty-thousand Glock owners say it's okay, then I'd call it an acceptable idea. If you want confidence, start low pressure and work your way up after checking the brass or signs of impending doom 
Clark
Member
My Glocks have never fired a factory round.
I would put keeping handloads away from Glocks in the same category as rotating tires and believing in global warming.
I would put keeping handloads away from Glocks in the same category as rotating tires and believing in global warming.
I have loaded and shot reloads out of a glock 23 no problems. I would say if you keep the loads under factory specs you should be fine. As with reloading 40 sw for any pistol you have to be careful since it is a higher pressure cartidge than say a 45 acp.
GaryL
I am not defending Lone_Gunman's comment but the hard cold truth is the round was either mis-loaded or the gun is a POS, there is no other possible explanation. I seriously doubt the the gun was a POS unless it had been abused. Accidents like this is exactly what led manufactures to disclaim reloaded ammunition. Properly reloaded ammunition is at a minimum equal to commercial ammunition and in most instances superior. Unfortunately, many reloaders do not follow strict reloading guide lines and many users of progressive presses do not take proper safeguards when reloading.
I have been reloading since I was 12 with my grandfather and in over 30 years I have never blown up a gun, but I have made mistakes over the years. I didn't monitor brass length closely and had to pull a bunch of bullets because they wouldn't chamber. I even under charged one 45 ACP round where the bullet had to be driven out of barrel with a wooden dowel; but I have never double charged a round. I contribute my sucess to sticking with charges that fill the case 60% or higher and working with loads that can tolerate 0.5 gr variance without exceeding maximum load pressure. I check ever 25th round on my progressive and never tolerate more then 0.2 gr deviation. If I use extruded powder then I measure every round and trickle to charge, but with the advances in ball, flake and spherical powder I am shifting away from extruded in all but my high power rifles.
I am not defending Lone_Gunman's comment but the hard cold truth is the round was either mis-loaded or the gun is a POS, there is no other possible explanation. I seriously doubt the the gun was a POS unless it had been abused. Accidents like this is exactly what led manufactures to disclaim reloaded ammunition. Properly reloaded ammunition is at a minimum equal to commercial ammunition and in most instances superior. Unfortunately, many reloaders do not follow strict reloading guide lines and many users of progressive presses do not take proper safeguards when reloading.
I have been reloading since I was 12 with my grandfather and in over 30 years I have never blown up a gun, but I have made mistakes over the years. I didn't monitor brass length closely and had to pull a bunch of bullets because they wouldn't chamber. I even under charged one 45 ACP round where the bullet had to be driven out of barrel with a wooden dowel; but I have never double charged a round. I contribute my sucess to sticking with charges that fill the case 60% or higher and working with loads that can tolerate 0.5 gr variance without exceeding maximum load pressure. I check ever 25th round on my progressive and never tolerate more then 0.2 gr deviation. If I use extruded powder then I measure every round and trickle to charge, but with the advances in ball, flake and spherical powder I am shifting away from extruded in all but my high power rifles.
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P-32
Member
I reloaded for my Glock 35 since 1999. I haven't blown it up yet.
I do have a friend who was letting his 10 Y/O daughter help him load for his 35 using 231. She double charged a few cases and rather than throwing the batch away picked out what he thought were the doubles.....well he missed one.
Several days later we where on the range and I noticed his brass was looking odd and told him about it. He went home and checked it out. The chamber and trigger were cracked and the mag release needed to be replaced. What amazed me the pistol still functioned. New parts fixed it right up.
I do have a friend who was letting his 10 Y/O daughter help him load for his 35 using 231. She double charged a few cases and rather than throwing the batch away picked out what he thought were the doubles.....well he missed one.
Several days later we where on the range and I noticed his brass was looking odd and told him about it. He went home and checked it out. The chamber and trigger were cracked and the mag release needed to be replaced. What amazed me the pistol still functioned. New parts fixed it right up.
loadedround
Member
I own and shoot a 3rd generation Glock 21 with my 45 ACP reloaded ammunition without any problems. I use the same ammo in my 3 Colts also w/o mishaps. I believe the only problems were with the unsupported case in the 40 s&w barrel using hi vel ammo. I couldn't afford to shoot all factory ammo in my guns since my retirement.
stevegun 1
Member
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- Feb 1, 2007
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Reloads good to go for me
I've shot over 6K rounds of my own 115 grain reloads in the last 14 months with zero problems. This was with surplus brass and put through my G19.
I've shot over 6K rounds of my own 115 grain reloads in the last 14 months with zero problems. This was with surplus brass and put through my G19.
cheygriz
member
IN my experience with many Glocks over the years:
The tapered and bottleneck cases, i.e., 9MM and .357 SIG have chambers cut to SAAMI spec, as determined by measuring fired cases with a micrometer. These calibers can be reloaded 'til the cows come home.
Glocks chamberd for straight wall cases, i.e. 40 S&W, 10MM and .45 ACP have very large, sloppy chambers, allegedly to enhance feeding reliability.
Ammo fired in these chambers will bulge in the head area. If continually resized and fired with factory pressure reloads, they will fail, causing what is generally referred to as "catastrophic case head failure."
I have replaced the factory barrels in my Glocks, model 20, 21 and 22 with aftermarket barrels.
In my experience, a person should either reload only low velocity starting pressure loads or get an aftermaket barrel when reloading for a Glock in .40, 10MM and .45.
The tapered and bottleneck cases, i.e., 9MM and .357 SIG have chambers cut to SAAMI spec, as determined by measuring fired cases with a micrometer. These calibers can be reloaded 'til the cows come home.
Glocks chamberd for straight wall cases, i.e. 40 S&W, 10MM and .45 ACP have very large, sloppy chambers, allegedly to enhance feeding reliability.
Ammo fired in these chambers will bulge in the head area. If continually resized and fired with factory pressure reloads, they will fail, causing what is generally referred to as "catastrophic case head failure."
I have replaced the factory barrels in my Glocks, model 20, 21 and 22 with aftermarket barrels.
In my experience, a person should either reload only low velocity starting pressure loads or get an aftermaket barrel when reloading for a Glock in .40, 10MM and .45.
tomj44
Member
RyanM, How do I get in touch with Randy Ketchum ?
Tom
Tom
snuffy
Member
around 10,000
Maybe more than that through a M-22 glock, 40S&W, ALL reloads, ALL through a factory BBL. I don't recall EVER firing a factory shell in it. Now as cheygrizz says, I don't load to max pressure, nor do I load starting loads. I find best accuracy in mid range loads, the brass lasts darn near forever.
About 3/4 of the shells have been loaded with west coast plated,( now X-Treme bullets), 165 RNFP, a few Berrys, and a few Raniers. The rest have been H-XTP's.
Maybe more than that through a M-22 glock, 40S&W, ALL reloads, ALL through a factory BBL. I don't recall EVER firing a factory shell in it. Now as cheygrizz says, I don't load to max pressure, nor do I load starting loads. I find best accuracy in mid range loads, the brass lasts darn near forever.
About 3/4 of the shells have been loaded with west coast plated,( now X-Treme bullets), 165 RNFP, a few Berrys, and a few Raniers. The rest have been H-XTP's.
Mr. Ketchum's e-mail address is rketchum(at)hotmail.com (replace the (at) with the at symbol), or at least it was about a year ago.
Randy TIG welded Clark's G22 barrel as well, several years ago. Clark has achieved some amount of notoriety on THR by firing 246% overloads of IMR HiSkor 800-X through said barrel, without blowing up the gun.
Which is not to say that you could do a 246% overload or even a double charge with just any powder. 800-X is unusually well-behaved, and the book maximum loads only develop around 25,000 PSI to begin with (yet deliver the same velocity as 35,000 PSI loads with other powders).
Randy TIG welded Clark's G22 barrel as well, several years ago. Clark has achieved some amount of notoriety on THR by firing 246% overloads of IMR HiSkor 800-X through said barrel, without blowing up the gun.
Which is not to say that you could do a 246% overload or even a double charge with just any powder. 800-X is unusually well-behaved, and the book maximum loads only develop around 25,000 PSI to begin with (yet deliver the same velocity as 35,000 PSI loads with other powders).
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2nd generation G22
purchased 1993. Two boxes of factory ammo when I first got it and umpteen reloads ever since. Some of these are meant for carry, with a 165 gr bullet at 1000 fps. They work fine, no ugly cases, no kbs. But I watch my charging very closely and inspect each block of cases under good light before seating. I have a single stage press; maybe that helps.
But I will confess I just ordered an aftermarket barrel.
purchased 1993. Two boxes of factory ammo when I first got it and umpteen reloads ever since. Some of these are meant for carry, with a 165 gr bullet at 1000 fps. They work fine, no ugly cases, no kbs. But I watch my charging very closely and inspect each block of cases under good light before seating. I have a single stage press; maybe that helps.
But I will confess I just ordered an aftermarket barrel.
tomj44
Member
TIG Weld
RyanM, Thank You. I emailed Randy. I will post any informatiom I get if anyone else is interested in this type of fix.
Tom
RyanM, Thank You. I emailed Randy. I will post any informatiom I get if anyone else is interested in this type of fix.
Tom
Glocks have quite a history of blowing up, handloads are the biggest problem, but they also KB with factory ammo, Glock's lack of cartridge case support is the main cause of the problem.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g30kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g17-breaks.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb4.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g35-40kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g36kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/40fed-kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/ppb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g30kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g17-breaks.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb4.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g35-40kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g36kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/40fed-kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/ppb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html
As has been stated,
if you are worried about the unsupported case issue, one option is to get a replacement barrel. If you get one without the polygonal rifling you get the added benefit of being able to shoot lead reloads as well.
Regarding manufacturers' warnings about not shooting reloads: It's a liability thing. Factory ammo has a much smaller failure rate when compared to reloads. So by admonishing users to use the most realiable ammo available (i.e. less KABOOMS), they are covering their behinds in case you choose to ignore them and do shoot reloads. Then, if someone does have a Kaboom, they can disavow any responsibility, as they warned them not to do that.
if you are worried about the unsupported case issue, one option is to get a replacement barrel. If you get one without the polygonal rifling you get the added benefit of being able to shoot lead reloads as well.
Regarding manufacturers' warnings about not shooting reloads: It's a liability thing. Factory ammo has a much smaller failure rate when compared to reloads. So by admonishing users to use the most realiable ammo available (i.e. less KABOOMS), they are covering their behinds in case you choose to ignore them and do shoot reloads. Then, if someone does have a Kaboom, they can disavow any responsibility, as they warned them not to do that.
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