Glocks and reloads!

[highlander 5]

Looking at the pictures of the Glock barrels that's a good sized area where the case is not supported. Don't have my S&W 1911 handy but I'll bet the amount of case that is unsupported is a lot less. A replacement barrel is not that expensive and would make me feel a lot more secure in firing reloads

 

[fatelk]

What exactly is the deal with Glocks and lead bullets? I've heard a couple places before that you shouldn't use them, but don't understand why not. Is there some actual substantiated reason or just hearsay? I've shot many hundreds of lead target loads in a .40 SW Glock before I was told that I shouldn't. To be honest I don't understand why lead would work differently with polygonal rifling as opposed to regular rifling. Is there some real physics behind it or is it just one of those "I knew a guy who knew a guy who blew one up" things?

 

[g5reality]

Second barrel

I shoot the reloads @ my indoor range. They have insurance incase there is a problem they'll fix or replace it for free. I also ONLY shoot reload through my aftermarket Storm Lake Barel. OEM barrel stays clean and is only fired with new factory Ammo.

 

[snuffy]

Uh-huh, your point is?

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g30kb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g17-breaks.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb4.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g35-40kb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g36kb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/40fed-kb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/ppb.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html

So just who is this Dean Speir? And how much does his saying anything prove that Glocks are a bad gun? Notice how ALL these are from THE GUN ZONE internet rag?

So, okay, Mr. Speir doesn't like glocks, that's his opinion, why turn that into supposed fact.

ALL these damaged pistols were from overloads! Whether the round that did the damage was factory loaded, or some handloaders screw-up, they were either overloaded or possibly a defect in the actual steel of the barrel. All guns are SUPPOSED to be fired with a proof load before being shipped. If the glocks were so tested, why did they suddenly let go after getting into someones hands?

I trust my Glock NOT to come apart in my hands, I may even buy another one someday. I will continue to shoot my reloads in it, with complete confidence!

 

[tomj44]

Hey guys,
as RyanM said, there is less expensive way to have the case fully supported in your glock, than buying a new barrel. For a very reasonable price, Randy Ketchum, of Lynnwood Guns & Ammunition in Washington state, will rework your factory barrel. I sent my G36 barrel to him last week. I will post again after I get the barrel back and shoot it.

Tom

 

[Zippy06]

I do reloads and lead in my G17 and G22C.
Neither gun has seen a factory or remanufactured round.

 

[g56]

So just who is this Dean Speir? And how much does his saying anything prove that Glocks are a bad gun? Notice how ALL these are from THE GUN ZONE internet rag?

I guess you figure that he's making all of that stuff up, you think the photos are fake, the reports from all over the country are fake, and it's all handloads, or one of the zillions of overcharged factory rounds, except it's mostly Glocks that blow up, other brands occasionally, but mostly Glocks. The reason why they are on Gun Zone is because he has collected reports in a central location, simple as that.

Don't drink the Glock cool aid, they blow up from time to time, primarily because they have substantially less support for the case head than other brands.

There are aftermarket barrels available that address that shortcoming, why would any of those companies make and advertise them as supporting more of the case head if that wasn't a problem?

Here's another one, and it's not on the Gun Zone:
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Waffen/Glock-30.htm

 

[RyanM]

Lack of chamber support does not cause the bottom of the chamber to peel open like a banana. That's a double or triple charge there. And if you look at the majority of cases where the barrel was intact, a huge section of the case is ripped open, indicating that it was fired out of battery.

The real problem is that the striker spring directly opposes the recoil spring, so a brand new or extra power striker spring combined with a very old or reduced power recoil spring can result in disaster. A lot of the .40 brass I find that's been fired through other people's Glocks, has the firing pin indentation off-center, indicating that it was fired slightly out of battery, but not enough to harm anything (most of them don't even have the "guppy belly").

-----

Oh, and Tom, you may want to look into aftermarket refinishing of the barrel as well. Randy Ketchum can't replicate the tennifer finish, so the feed ramp, a small area of the chamber, and a bit of the underside will all be bare metal. Personally, I'm sending my barrel to Ron Mahovsky for Metalife chrome plating, after over a year of grumbling about the bottom area rusting (though the feed ramp and chamber interior never rusted, strangely, just that one little spot on the bottom). The price he quoted me is very reasonable.

 

[Eagle103]

Lack of chamber support does not cause the bottom of the chamber to peel open like a banana. That's a double or triple charge there.

Exactly.

 

[Khornet]

Looking at that photo

seems to me that my G22 chamber has more support than that. Did the Glock people change that over the years?

Regarding lead, I must say that I ran 50 lead handloads through mine when I first got it. The leading was impressive, and took a fair bit of work to remove. I can easily see that building up to a dangerous degree. Of course, much depends on lead hardness, lube, and velocity, as well as the shooter's diligence in cleaning out lead.

Just received a KKM replacement barrel, so I'll be back to lead shooting soon. But in this age of plated bullets, I wonder whether it was really necessary. I've fired tons of plated handloads at respectable velocities over the years with no problems.

Overall, I'd have to say that handloading for Glocks is no more risky than for any other handgun. You just have to pay attention.

 

[usp_fan]

Often it's not the triple or double charges that do it. It can be as simple as the brass work hardening from being resized many times. This is especially true of .40 glock brass (the preg guppie). If that one spot lines up several times over the feed ramp and is then resized, that one spot becomes, over time, a weak area prone to failure.

--usp_fan

 

[RyanM]

seems to me that my G22 chamber has more support than that. Did the Glock people change that over the years?

Like I said, out of battery firing. The actual amount of unsupported chamber under normal circumstances is on the order of 1/20th of an inch. Barely anything. Many other brands of guns in .40 S&W have that amount of unsupported chamber. But if you fire any gun out of battery, that quickly decreases.

 

[NavArch]

Which Gen is Getting the Bad Press?

I just checked my Gen 3 G23 for the degree to which the cartridge is unsupported. Mine shows, perhaps, as much as half the cartridge sidewall as in the posted pix. Got no proof, but I'm willing to strongly guess that Glock has made an un-announced improvement in this area [un-announced 'cause the legal department said to do it that way]. I have never seen a picture of a replacement barrel with more support and still functioned reliably. YMMV.

Always willing to listen to others that have proof that I'm wrong.

 

[Idano]

usp_fan,

I can agree with part of your assessment that the round was mis loaded.

Often it's not the triple or double charges that do it.

However, I can't agree with the statement that the brass failed and is what caused the problem.

It can be as simple as the brass work hardening from being resized many times. This is especially true of .40 glock brass (the preg guppie). If that one spot lines up several times over the feed ramp and is then resized, that one spot becomes, over time, a weak area prone to failure.

The brass is only the container that holds the powder and the bullet it can not constrain any significant amount of pressure. The chamber of the gun and the action is what constrains the pressure of the round. This is why brass can be loaded until it splits or shows signs of stress. By the way a lot of the bellied brass is because of an enlarged chamber entrance for improved feeding.

 

[Archie]

Idano

I must politely but firmly disagree with your statement

The brass is only the container that holds the powder and the bullet it can not constrain any significant amount of pressure. The chamber of the gun and the action is what constrains the pressure of the round. This is why brass can be loaded until it splits or shows signs of stress. By the way a lot of the bellied brass is because of an enlarged chamber entrance for improved feeding.

In many semi-automatic pistols - including the 1911 design - one portion of the web area (between one-quarter and one-third of the circumference) of the case is all that contains the pressure. A casual look at a cartridge case in a disassembled 1911 or Glock clearly shows the unsupported area.

This is the strongest portion of the casewall, but it's still a think bit of brass.

Revolvers and most rifles have cases totally supported by the chamber of the weapon. Cases are supposed to seal the chamber from gas leaks in the rear of the chamber-barrel volume. However, revolver and rifle cases fail from time to time and erupt gas from the rupture.

Further, I own a strain guage type pressure test device. Part of the formula for determing chamber pressure involves calculating how much of the chamber pressure is absorbed by the brass case. The case contains a minor, but important percentage of the pressure.

 

[Idano]

Archie,

I think you are going to have to post a picture of the unsupported case in the 1911 barrel since I no longer have my 1911-A1 to see what you are referring to. The Glock 17 I have shot. the casing goes completely into the chamber and the action locks up behind it. However, I do notice that the entrance into the chamber is enlarged, that I am guessing is to ensure that the gun feed reliably, and allows the brass to expand below where the resizer die can reach. Is the enlarged entrance what you are referring to as unsupported?

 

[Luggernut]

Idano,

I'm no expert but I think it's both. Glocks tend to have loose chambers to allow for feeding anything reliably. However, Glocks, as well as others also have small areas where part of the case is actually unsupported. If you take a Glock barrel, put a live round in it, then place the bottom of the case (primer side) on a flat surface to mimic the breech face- you can see what is happening. It's a small area where the feed ramp meets the chamber. Many guns (except revolvers for example) have some area where there is no support. Some are just worse than others.

EDIT: I just reread some post in this thread- there are perfect pics of this!