Glocks & reloads.

[irishpunk]

I, like many of you have heard it up to "HERE" about how bad Glock pistols are. Well I'm no expert, but I do own three Glocks (mod 20, 21 & 23), and I'm looking at purchasing a model 33.

I'm not gonna try and push Glocks on you here, so don't worry. I just happen to like them. I would even argue that Sigs and H&K's are better, or should I say, higher quality pistols. By the way,one of each of these brands is on my "list".

Now to my point, as I've stated I'm no expert, and do not put thousands of rounds through my pistols each year. But I have started reloading ammunition for each of the calibers stated.

I use the Speer reloading manual and start at the low end of the spectrum and work my way up to one step below the max. I only reload 5 rounds for each load, checking each one for proper length and primer depth.

Then it's off to the range to "test" these rounds. In doing so I fire only one at a time, retrieve the casing, and inspect it throughly. So far so good.

I now have a working load for each caliber, and have been pressing bullets for my pistols.

Does anyone see a future problem for me, using my own hand-loads ? Keep in mind that I will not be going to the range every weekend and blasting hundreds of rounds out of these handguns. I reload mainly to stay ahead of any unseen shortage.

Any advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Cards81fan]

The only issue I can think of is that the Glock barrels' rifling does not take kindly to unjacketed lead bullets, or so I've read.

Aside from that, I see zero problems with firing handloads, so long as they are loaded within spec for the caliber and the brass checks clean after firing - a case bulge is not isolated to just Glocks, though there seems to be some discussion about the chamber support in the .40s being prone to this. I won't judge as I don't have experience with Glocks in reloading, but I suspect the reports are exaggerated. And I'm not even a Glock guy

 

[PO2Hammer]

Should not be a problem unless you are pushing the pressure limits.
My only concern would be the model 23, how old is it?
Early Glock .40's did not have the best case head support, and hot loads in well used brass have resulted in a few problems.
modern .40 caliber Glocks are much better, and should handle normal reloads just fine.
I've loaded for the Glock 21, 20, 19, 17L with no trouble at all. I use plated bullets for the most part, no need to mess with lead, just not worth it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

It has long been known that Glock rifling is not lead friendly...it leads up badly and needs to be cleaned out completely to avoid issues.

I'm sure you are already aware, but it bears mentioning for readers who are not, that shooting reloads in you Glock will void the factory warranty...if something happens, you're on your own as far as repairs and injuries

 

[LeLynn]

I do not own a Glock and probably never will (They just don't fit me as well as other guns available) but I do however reload for my M&P40 with good results. I have always wondered... Since running handloaded ammo will void the warrenty on a Glock, how will they ever find out? Provided you always loaded jacketed ammo, unless you mentioned it to them when returning it for repair could they actually tell that reloaded ammo (Jacketed ammo loaded within spec) was run through the gun? I just ask because I honestly have not looked to see if reloaded ammo will void my Smith & Wesson warrenty and if I ever do have some sort of issue this may come into play. Thanks for nay input anyone may have.

 

[MrWesson]

I shot lead through my glock 26 for about 6 months and yes it leads more than a traditional rifled barrel.

I would keep it to around 300-500 rounds before I had to clean the hell out of the barrel but even the leaded barrel seemed to shoot well even after 500 rounds without cleaning.

 

[LiveLife]

I believe there will be never ending-discussions of "hexagonal/polygonal" rifled barrel, loose chamber dimensions, lack of case base support at ramp area, bulged cases, "Don't shoot reloads in your Glock or it will KaBoom", "You can't shoot lead reloads in Glocks", etc., etc. for the rest of my life.

I too have engaged in numerous such discussions and have reached a simple solution to all these concerns - Lone Wolf barrels.

- About $100
- Drop-in with no gunsmith fitting required
- Tight chambers won't bulge your case
- Improved ramp area case base support
- Match grade stainless steel barrel
- Conventional "land and groove" rifling for shooting lead bullets
- Available 40S&W to 9mm conversion barrels


I do shoot lead reloads in my Glocks - I inspect the barrel/clean as necessary about every 200-300 rounds.

Be safe but do enjoy shooting your Glocks!

 

[9mmepiphany]

I just ask because I honestly have not looked to see if reloaded ammo will void my Smith & Wesson warrenty and if I ever do have some sort of issue this may come into play. Thanks for nay input anyone may have.

It does void the lifetime warranty...it doesn't mean they won't fix it, it just means they are not obligated to do so

I have always wondered... Since running handloaded ammo will void the warrenty on a Glock, how will they ever find out?

Woud you lie if they were to ask?

 

[Strykervet]

I reload and I have a few Glocks. It is like the AK47 of handguns. It is ugly but goes boom everytime. I particularly like the G29. The LW barrels are okay, I've had tolerance problems with them (too loose) but they work well for practice. You will get more miles out the brass that way.

The only problems, like has been said, is that the rifling isn't the best for lead bullets. I don't like to use Rainier bullets in them either --only REAL jacketed bullets. And you do have to be careful about the unsupported case. It sort of limits the number of times you can reload the same brass because it will always deform the brass there (even if you can't see it). I think this is more of an issue with the 10mm though.

If you load a hot load you will see the bulge right away. If you keep loading the same brass hot and keep getting bulges you are asking for a KB. I've never had one, but I am careful and aware of the limitations.

 

[M1key]

I believe most all pistol manufacturers threaten to void the warranty if reloads are shot. Gives them a liability "out".

I reload for all my Glocks, except for the 357sig (my sizer won't bump the shoulder back enough), including the 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, 10mm. My main concern is to monitor the 40 brass and limit the number of times I re-use it.

M

 

[Strykervet]

As far as warranty... I fired a handload using Viht N110 pushing a 158gr. Gold Dot out of a S&W 340PD. It blew small chunks out of the cylinder (and a huge flash too). The loads weren't hot, but they were close to the maximum. I had no problems firing many of the same through my 686.

I sent it back to S&W, told them what happened, and expected them to charge for the new cylinder (I could have done it myself, but I wanted the rest of it checked out too, considering) but they replaced it free of charge and I had it back the same week.

I think handloads voiding the warranty is a CYA thing. If you load hot loads, have a problem, a crack or weakening of the critical parts, and then have a KB it is not their fault.

 

[Skylerbone]

Irish, you'll have to give us the Gen. number of your specific Glocks to make sensible suggestions. First Gen. chambers had less support and were more prone to KBs than subsequent models so a new barrel may not be necessary unless you're shooting lead.

Even traditional rifling can lead up badly, I noted alarming amounts in my M&P 40 after a 200 round lead only session.

Shooting thousands of rounds or not makes little difference when it comes to KBs, they can happen with once fired casings. Shooting more gives more opportunity for mishap but isn't a guarantee. How you load can affect your chances as well. There's more to consider than OAL and bullet selection. Powder, pressure, overworking the case mouth, lots of factors to consider.

I've got 40 S&W brass that's been through 8 firings and loaded for a ninth without issue. I've run across a few in batches that didn't make the cut but as a whole they've been fine WITH MY LOADS. YMMV.

It seems you're taking reasonable precautions, take care to continue doing so and shoot enough to make a meaningful decision on your final load choice.

I do not recommend lying if something goes wrong, your integrity is worth more than anything Glock sells (or anyone else for that matter).

 

[irishpunk]

My 23 is a Gen3, less then 6 months old, with maybe 200 rounds through it. . .my other models are all Gen3, and less then 200 rounds.

Thanks for the info too !!!

 

[dogsoldier0513]

I bought my first Glock, a G19, in 1990 and carried it on duty. ALL of our range ammo was LEAD. ALL of the 9MM ammo I reloaded was LEAD. I put 10s of thousands of rounds through that G19 before trading it for a G21. I NEVER had one single problem with shooting LEAD bullets through it.

 

[Skylerbone]

I used to ride on the back windshield area of my parents' Caprice. After being t-boned by a Suburban last year at full speed (he blew through a dead red light) I'm glad I was belted in.

Any post mentioning Glock and lead brings out examples of people who have had no problem with the combination. Those same posts march out cases of KBs and separations as well. It does not prove it is safe and the manufacturer's warnings suggest strongly that it is not. As I am not a machinest or engineer or ballistician or lawyer by trade I will continue to believe those in the industry have merit for those warnings.

After my leading experience, I broke out the kinetic hammer and never put another lead bullet through any of my 40s or 9mms. At $30/250 for Nosler JHPs, I'll spend the extra $30/1000 to shoot what is safe and what I consider to be an excellent SD round. I benefit from training with what I use and need not worry which box of ammo I grab for a day at the range. (excepting of course POI for the specific pistol).

To anyone recommending others shoot lead: do you have a response ready for someone who accepts that advice then posts a week later about their missing fingers and eye? Would it be they're just sloppy reloaders? I'm just erring on the side of safety here.

 

[ET]

As others have said here, if you are shooting un-jacketed lead bullets in your Glock then you will experience a leading problem. It is because blah, blah, blah... IT"S FOR REAL! Get the Lone Wolf barrel to shoot your re-loads thru & use the factory barrel for the jacketed rounds... OR load your rounds with bullets like those that Bass Pro sells that meet Glocks standards. Just be sure to keep the pressures within Glocks guidelines.

 

[mokin]

The only problem I've come across after 3000+ rounds of reloads in my Glock (G29) is that I think the recoil spring is starting to go....

 

[dwhite]

My new G22

Picked this up today. It's a Gen 3 RTF2.

Having heard about how sloppy Glock chambers are and issues with case head support I was planning on buying an aftermarket barrel.

Once I got home I compared the chamber fit with a live factory round with the chamber on my SW40VE. The Glock chamber is tighter. The Glock also has equivalent case head support.

I'm looking forward to trying this out. I'm also going to carefully try hard lead bullets.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[LiveLife]

Here's a bit of little known fact:

Over the years (and decades), Glock has quietly and subtly improved the various Glock models to include tighter chambers and improved support at the ramp area.

My Gen3 G27 barrel has about the same case base support as my Lone Wolf barrels but the chamber is still not as tight as Lone Wolf (As far as I know, Lone Wolf barrels just about have the tightest chambers I know of - so much that some reloaders have to return the barrels to have them "loosen" up the chamber dimensions - maybe due to their carbide sizing/taper crimp dies as my Lee carbide dies sizes and taper crimps my cases so they all fall freely into LW chambers with a "clink").

I tell people that it is really the Gen1/Gen2 Glock barrels they need to worry about as Gen3/Gen4 probably have chamber dimensions comparable to other production pistols (as you found out first hand). I feel comfortable shooting reloads in my Gen2/Gen3 Glocks and have shot several hundreds and thousands of jacketed and plated reloads out of them.

As to shooting lead reloads out of Glocks, I recommend it to people only if they inspect the barrel for fouling buildup of bore near the chamber end and clean as needed about 200-300 rounds. Why? Based on my experience, it takes that many rounds to show any significant fouling build up in my Glock barrels. If I don't see any significant fouling to clean with Hoppe's #9 solvent and copper bore brush, I simply swab the barrel, inspect again for fouling and continue shooting. It is so much easier to keep a shiny Glock barrel clean than to scrub one out (Don't ask how I know this ).

I have shot a lot of jacketed Montana Gold bullets and plated Rainier/Berry's bullets over the years; but due to simple economics (I had my pay cut over the past year), I found myself shooting more and more lead reloads.

Why am I a strong supporter of Lone Wolf barrels? I have used LW barrels before I shot lead reloads and found that my spent cases did not bulge as much, which made for easier resizing. I also found that brass that's not worked as much lasted longer (I have a batch of 9mm/40S&W brass that's been reloaded over 100 times with high load data range of W231/HP38). I don't endorse everyone do this, but I think it advocates the use of LW barrels in Glocks whether you shoot lead reloads or jacketed/plated.

FYI, I get very little leading in my LW barrels using 18 BHN Missouri Bullets with mid-high range load data and I recommend the softer 12 BHN bullets if you want to load below starting charge to high range load data.

To anyone recommending others shoot lead: do you have a response ready for someone who accepts that advice then posts a week later about their missing fingers and eye? Would it be they're just sloppy reloaders? I'm just erring on the side of safety here.

Good post Skylerbone.

Be safe and DO enjoy shooting your Glocks!

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I'm sure you are already aware, but it bears mentioning for readers who are not, that shooting reloads in you Glock will void the factory warranty...if something happens, you're on your own as far as repairs and injuries

However, they will repair it on the cheap. I watched a glock go Kaboom in my buddies hand about a year ago. The mag release, trigger, and internals were blown all over the range, the plastic frame was ruined. He was shooting reloads, but Glock put a new plastic frame on the surviving slide and barrel and replaced all the missing bits for $100.00. OTOH- I know another guy that wanted to dremmel down the grip angle and took a bit too much off. Glock told him to fly a kite.

 

[Skylerbone]

One point that keeps coming up in this thread is the "sloppy" chamber of early Glocks. They were not made on inferior machinery, not ill designed and no corners were cut. They were spec'ed that way for reliability. Several other engineered features have quietly gone away due to public scrutiny to the point that they are, in present form, likely only reliable as several other copycats. I am not a Glock fan, not a Glock owner but I do have a profound and deepening respect for what they brought to the table. I have enjoyed the fruits of their labor in the form of another companies poly wonder and for that I say thank you to Glock.

 

[racine]

Glocks and Lead Bullets

FWIW, I've been shooting Glocks since about 1988 and my current G35 has approx. 50-60K Moly coated lead bullets through a KKM barrel, probably much more. I shot lead reloads out of my old 19 but diligently cleaned that factory barrel every 300 rounds. Proly shot a couple K before I traded up to a 23. The trick to get good velocities, no brass bulge and gen. good results it to use a standard land/groove aftermarket barrel. For that KKM makes some of the better barrels that just drop in and provide decent accuracy. I may go 1000-1500 rounds before I even clean that KKM barrel. I've never had a KB, knock on wood, and I reload all my ammo. HTH and have fun. BTW, I've also got a KKM barrel for the G23 that now has about 2000 reloads through it- neither of these ever hicccups with my ammo.

 

[fmcdave]

I've been shooting reloads through my Glock 23 for 5 years with many 1000s of rounds. I have never had an issue. I've replicated the ballistics of the 135g Corbon and have had no issues. I do use plated bullets (mostly Rainier or Berry). This is due to two reasons:
1) I'm a little lazy and don't like cleaning out the leading.
2) I don't like to handle lead as it is easy to get lead poisoning if you are not careful about keeping your hands clean (probably associated with my lazy gene).
Dave

 

[MAUSER88]

Don't believe everything you read. My model 23 has over 4000 rounds of 180gr. lead reloads without and problems or leading in the barrel. I shoot 100-200 before I fieldstrip and clean. Just don't push them too fast and you will be fine using the factory barrel.

 

[Skylerbone]

Guys, the OP has Gen. 3s exclusively. No one is telling him his brass will bulge excessively though he is inspecting it diligently. No one is telling him he can't shoot reloads through his factory set-up, simply that if he does the manufacturer expressly proclaims the warranty "void". Finally, that IF he chooses to shoot lead, be it wheel weights or hard cast, that lead WILL build up and that a KB is MUCH MORE LIKELY to occur and can happen with round number 1 or round number 100,000 but NO ONE of us can positively say IF or WHEN.

I contend that shooting jacketed or plated bullets is both safER and can be cost effective with no need to rebarrel. $136/1000 for premium Nosler JHPs vs $110/1000 for Sutter's Choice cast is $26/1000 difference. At $105 for a Lone Wolf barrel it takes 4000 rounds to break even, then add all the scrubbing and the fact that you're exposed to lead while loading AND while shooting (yep you are atomizing lead and breathing it in with EVERY shot) which is information I feel the OP ought to know.

Reading posts like "The trick to shooting lead" or "I disassemble and clean every 100-200 rounds" says that lead in barrels is something that ought to be believed when read about. My own experience showed me that (and my M&P factory barrels are traditional broach cut rifling).

After weighing the FACTS my PERSONAL conclusion was that shooting lead posed more danger, more hassle and less cost savings at my 3k-4k round count per year than it was worth. I shoot with peace of mind now and leave the lead where it belongs, in my revolvers.