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GO! GO! SPEED RACER! Amphetamines and the Military.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Zorro, Jan 3, 2003.

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  1. Zorro

    Zorro Member

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    I have in fact used them when I was in.

    Now they are been cited as a reason for bombing Canadian Soldiers training.

    Amphetamines work great in small, infrequent, amounts. But if you use them to replace sleep, they don't for very long.

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/bomb02.html

    Anyone else have stories?
     
  2. Fed168

    Fed168 Member

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    The nazi cooking method comes from WW2, manufacturer obvious.
     
  3. PATH

    PATH Member

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    There is an old saying,"speed kills". Well in this instance it impaired judgement and got friendlies killed. Missions flown by Air Force pilots tend to be a bit long. The regular use of "speed" is less than a responsible thing to do when you have so much firepower at your fingertips. Hell, most folks with brains will pull off the road if they are too tired. We should not have out pilots on drugs while flying highly sophisticated machinery. That is my .02 cents worth and now I'll duck my head.
     
  4. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    one side of me agrees w/ path...the other side remembers what it was like when i was in: the lack of sleep, the drills during off-time, etc etc.

    i don't condone it, i guess, but i sure do sympathize w/ the guys who need a little lift now and then.
     
  5. Average Guy

    Average Guy Member

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    Illegal crank was prevalent at 29 Palms (and probably still is). Never tried it when I was in, but about 6 months after I got out--after my girlfriend broke up with me and my LE prospects weren't looking good--I said *** and ended up using for almost a year.

    It's certainly no substitute for sleep, and eventually your body will just shut down anyway. I never got into "trouble" while driving, but one day in class, after having been up not even 24 hours, I just passed out. The worst part was trying to get off the stuff, because for a couple of days afterward, I couldn't think straight.

    Gee, and I thought all the military drug experiments went out with the 60s. :)
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    This is a real crock, there is no free lunch. Person responsible for knowingly giving drugs should be in jail. Do you want to go to range with me after I had just a little line of coke to clear my head? Do you want guys with jets and bombs to do same with speed? This is insanity big time! I say this from experience not opinion. All my spec ops buddies in 70s and before occasionally took speed and we all know NOW it was counter productive.I wonder how pilots can pass the frequent drug screen and do this? :what:
     
  7. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Weren't our paratroopers given drugs before the jump into Normandy?
     
  8. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    It's a done deal.

    The pilots and aircrews pass the drug screening test the same way they do whenever they get a subscription that includes a controlled substance, ie. Codeine, etc. The flight surgeon makes an entry in the folder upon issuing the prescription. If a random urinalysis turns up positive for the controlled substance, the first place they'll go is that medical folder.

    Fly a B-2 for 36+ hours, with a catnap or two behind the ejection seats, and then transition to a critical phase of flight at the tail end of the crew duty day. Let's say a one-way trip, beginning at Whiteman AFB, a "delay" over Kabul, then landing at Diego Garcia. Staying alert is difficult, at best. Same goes for the U-2 Dragon Lady pilots. You're exhausted after a long recce flight, and you gotta land the widowmaker, which is difficult at best when you're wide awake and alert.

    When I was on my reconnaissance sorties into and out of the AOR during the Persian Gulf War, we all knew about the issued methamphetamines. Flight surgeon asked us if we had any objections to it. Luckily, we had an augmented crew and didn't exceed 24 hours at a time.
     
  9. Cal4D4

    Cal4D4 Member

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    Due to the misadventures of a family member, I have had comprehensive experience with the effects of meth. Delusions due to sleep deprivation, rage, paranoia and a car crash from falling asleep. It doesn't get much worse. This is all several years behind us and recovery seems to be 100%. There is absolutely no way I want anyone representing me armed or whatever to be on a program of sleep deprivation and meth. Find another way.
     
  10. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    A little more insight, courtesy of CNN:

     
  11. Yohan

    Yohan Member

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    [​IMG]

    Need I say more?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Rangerover

    Rangerover Member

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    Indeed some were. What was it? I have never been able to find out. Apparently the "Little White Pills", as they were called by the Troopers, were a type of (real or perceived) sedative, intended to calm the nerves of the understandably anxious paratroopers (I have no idea if the glider men were given this substance).

    Not all units were given the drug, but the ones that recieved it were under orders to take it. I originally suspected it may have been some precursor to Dramamine to prevent air-sickness, but the more I read about the substance the more I saw that SOME of the paratroopers recalled being "calmed" by the drug. I read of one account where a gentleman in the 101st charged a German machine gun nest (alone) and killed the crew with his trench knife. His buddies made the statement that he had, "Apparently been eating too many of those little white pills!" :p I'm sure they were joking, however.

    I have never read of the drug having a major effect upon the performance of the men one way or the other. If anyone knows what this stuff was I'd love to know.
     
  13. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm from near Springfield, where the 186th is based, so you can imagine that this is a big story around here. There are a lot of questions. Some new facts actually have come to light through the lawyer's investigation.

    1. Everyone was told by the military that the training operation involved only small arms fire and nothing was fired upward toward the plane. Turns out that's not true--artillery pieces were fired in the exercise, right before the bomb was dropped. One of our local talk radio hosts was a commander on bombers and recce planes and says that the muzzle flash of this cannon looks a lot like a SAM plume.

    2. Apparently, no one knew about this training exercise below the level of some high command in Kuwait City. Not the AWACS crew, not anyone at the 186th, no one.
     
  14. Zip06

    Zip06 Member

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    Ask a LRRP member or a SF trooper from the Vietnam era if they ever heard of such a thing.
     
  15. Betty

    Betty Member

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    Yuck. I think I'll go watch Jacob's Ladder tonight.
     
  16. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    When I worked on nuclear weapons as a sailor in the Navy I was in a program called the Personel Reliability Program (PRP), which was designed to monitor my mental and physical fitness to work directly on nuclear weapons.

    Being in the PRP I was subject to random urinanalysis (long before urinanalysis was fashionable in the military). I wasn't allowed to take as much as a sudafed, lest it impair my mental faculties and fitness to work on nukes. If I got caught taking unauthorized, but legal medications (even over the counter meds) I'd be branded a "drug abuser" and be prosecuted per the USMJ. I saw this happen to many shipmates over the years.

    I had a large pink placard inserted in my medical and dental records identifying me as someone who is in the PRP. The PRP ensured I got second class medical care because instead of getting medication that would work, and was prescribed for any other regular joe (but would render me unfit for PRP duties), I got medications that either didn't work or didn't work as well. There were a number of times the Corpsman or medical officer would start to write me a prescription and then go, "Oh, that's right, you're in the PRP," and then have to look in the formulary for an alternate, non-PRP, less effective drug to prescribe to me.

    Given this experience, I'm shocked the military would seek to prosecute combat pilots who were under the influence of military prescribed drugs, especially drugs that impair judgment. Hey, if I was mentally unfit to work with weapons of mass destruction because I took a sudafed, how can the military feed combat pilots speed and then turn them loose with weapons of mass destruction? It was the military that took the risk that something bad would happen. That risk was realized. Now they're going to blame the pilots involved. Doesn't seem right to me.
     
  17. 444

    444 Member

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    I think a few people are getting off track here. The issue is amphetamines, not coke, not meth., A legal drug that you can get by perscription from your doctor.
     
  18. Cal4D4

    Cal4D4 Member

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    444:

    Meth is just short for methamphetamine. Same goody as the prescription. Same effects when abused, whether by self medication or by doctor's help.
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    444, well, you can get cocaine from your doctor as well. ENTs use cocaine a lot.

    The defense may be in trouble shifting blame like this early. Drugs in the militree are nothing new. Looks bad for the pilots. Wait and see.

    Zorro, only story I have is about coffee. It helped me answer the phone.:)
     
  20. GinSlinger

    GinSlinger Member

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    This reminds me of an interview i saw with a B-17 pilot. He spoke of theses little "match-boxes" that hey were given with a chocolate and a pepermint (?). Whatever the "mint" was, the pilot claimed that it was a definite boost to him to take it half-way through a mission. I found it odd how much he stressed the positive effects of this "mint". I wonder how long this kind of thing has been going on....

    GinSlinger
     
  21. blades67

    blades67 Member

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    It's not a Title 32 investigation, it's an Article 32 investigation. The reason the pilots will most likely be charged is to limit the liability faced by the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Government.(Where's the barf smilie when you need it?)
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    I realize that cocaine is used in medicine, however it isn't something that you are going to get a perscription for that you pick up at your neighborhood pharmacy. However that is the case with amphetamines. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone their recreational use, but they arn't in the same league with crystal.
     
  23. armabill

    armabill Member

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    Sorry Zorro, I just couldn't resist:


    Out of the night,
    When the full moon is bright,
    Comes the horseman known as Zorro.
    This bold renegade
    Carves a 'Z' with his blade,
    A 'Z' that stands for Zorro.

    Zorro, Zorro, the fox so cunning and free,
    Zorro, Zorro, who makes the sign of the 'Z.'

    He is polite,
    But the wicked take flight
    When they catch the sight of Zorro.
    He's friend of the weak,
    And the poor and the meek,
    This very unique señor Zorro.

    Zorro, Zorro, the fox so cunning and free,
    Zorro, Zorro, who makes the sign of the Z.

    Zorro, Zorro, Zorro, Zorro, Zorro.

    :D :D
     
  24. beemerb

    beemerb Member

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    I read some time ago and I do not remember where that it was a standard practice for bomber crews in WW 2 to get "bennies" for the long missions. No matter how everyone feels about drugs in long flights I can't see anyone staying alert for such a long period of time.The payment for not staying alert was a chance of you and your crew dieing.I see a lot of talk about st reet drugs on this thread.I don't think you can compare the two.Street drugs are of unknown quality where the drugs issued are of a known quality and can dispensed accuratly.
    I think the drug talk is a lawyers out and the tactic will probably work.It sounds to me like there was a breakdown in command communication and that is what is being covered up.
    Bob
     
  25. The White Flyer

    The White Flyer Member

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    Only users lose drugs.
     
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