Gold Cup NM "Exciting" Trigger Repair

[edwardware]

I've recently picked up a blued Series 80 MkIV Gold Cup Nation Match in rough shape. I'm just getting into it mechanically, in preparation for rust blue refinish, and I've discovered a "sporting" trigger job.

The hammer hooks are 0.016" long, but are square. The sear nose is rounded off to the point that it's producing negative engagement angle (the hammer moves forward slightly prior to release), and the depressor and spring are MIA. Cocked and unlocked, I can push and wiggle the hammer off the hooks

My questions:
1) Should I recut the hammer hooks to .020, or is 0.016 appropriate for a GC? They are square and otherwise in good shape. I'd rather not buy a hammer if this part can be repaired.

2) When I replace the sear, can I use a standard weight sear spring and skip the depressor. The pistol does have the original wide steel trigger (trigger bounce, etc) but I'd like to avoid trying to find/waiting for the Gold Cup sear and depressor parts; they are out of stock everywhere I've looked. Will the standard sear spring compensate? EDIT: the sear is apparently no longer manufactured as Colt doesn't list it. If a trigger replacement is required, where can I find a light weight trigger wide enough (0.352") for the Gold Cup frame?

3) Does anyone know where I can find a blue thumb safety similar to the stock Colt 'short' that came on this? Colt's out of stock, the Ed Brown and Wilson parts aren't the right shape even after grinding down, and I don't like the oar-sized ambi that it's wearing now.

As always, your expertise is appreciated.

 

[1911Tuner]

I think I'd just get a new hammer and sear and call it a day.

 

[edwardware]

So I shouldn't worry about that heavy steel trigger bouncing around in there?

Suggest a favorite brand for the hammer and sear?

I think I'd just get a new hammer and sear and call it a day.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, you should worry about the wide steel GC stock trigger.

Replace it with a light-weight aluminum match trigger.

Or wait on the fiddlely little Colt GC parts you can't get.

If you want to go back stock GC?
Put a light match trigger in it and use it till you can find the missing parts.

rc

 

[BBBBill]

I've seen hooks that short that worked OK with a properly prepped sear, but I don't like it. You can try to lower the "floor" below the hammer hooks. Easiest on a mill or surface grinder, but it can be done by hand with a safe edged file. It is not a critical mating surface, so no need for a jig. The hooks, on the other hand, are critical, although the last .004" that you would be creating in the corner are not used (sear breakaway angle clears it). A sear can be modified for the depressor spring and plunger. I prefer to just replace the trigger with an aluminum unit.

https://egwguns.com/wecs.php?store=232536056986&action=display&target=11304

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Trigger...id-Pad-No-Holes-Gold-Cup/productinfo/190G-NH/

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Trigger-Ultralight-Match-Long-Standard-Pad-Gold-Cup/productinfo/190G/

Reshape the pad on the current thumb safety to a more pleasing profile.

 

[1911Tuner]

You can try to lower the "floor" below the hammer hooks.

The only problem with that is that the sear moves through an arc. If it rotates deeper into the floor, the hooks can't sit on the primary angle any more. You have to recut the sear to get the hooks and the sear primary to agree, and that results in a short sear too often.

Better to just get a new hammer and sear and start over.

I'd go ahead and get a low-mass trigger, too...unless you want to get in the habit of pulling the trigger and holding it every time you release the slide at full boogie. Once common practice amongst Bullseye competitors, it's not a good habit to get into unless all you shoot is slow-fire target.

 

[Drail]

I also vote for new hammer, sear and alum. trigger and new springs throughout.

 

[LeonCarr]

I believe Videcki/What ever name they are called now makes an aluminum skeletonized trigger the same width as the Factory Gold Cup Trigger.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[edwardware]

Thanks for your advice, it seems I have my shopping list made.

 

[bluekouki86]

I'd go ahead and get a low-mass trigger, too...unless you want to get in the habit of pulling the trigger and holding it every time you release the slide at full boogie. Once common practice amongst Bullseye competitors, it's not a good habit to get into unless all you shoot is slow-fire target.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but could you explain this 1911tuner? Would the purpose be to prevent the hammer falling while the slide moves into battery? Why was this a common practice by bullseye shooters?

 

[edwardware]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but could you explain this 1911tuner? Would the purpose be to prevent the hammer falling while the slide moves into battery? Why was this a common practice by bullseye shooters?

I think I can answer that (I learned the answer from Tuner). Picture the pistol, slide locked back, loaded magazine in place. Now drop the slide with the release; the slide flies forward, chambers a round, and slams to a stop when the barrel feet (lower lugs) strike the slide stop pin. This jars the entire pistol forward a bit.

Prior to this forward 'jar', the trigger is resting merrily in its track. Once the pistol is jared forward, the trigger will tend to remain at rest, meaning it will travel backward relative to the pistol, as if being pulled. If the trigger is heavy enough (and the forces resisting it are light enough) the trigger will fire the weapon.

If, on the other hand, the trigger is held to the rear, there's no movement of the trigger relative to the frame; they move together. With the trigger held back, the disconnecter can't rise to reconnect the trigger to the sear feet when the slide closes; this is exactly the condition the weapon is in right after firing; trigger back, and disconnecter disconnected until the trigger is released (by which time all the slamming and bouncing around is over).

How's that?

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, it was at least very common for Bullseye match guns.
Especially Center-fire class, where you had 2 1/2 pound triggers.

Holding the trigger back while loading pushes the disconnector back out of engagement with the sear, just the same as it is when you fire the gun.

It takes trigger bounce completely out of the equation.
And protects the sear & hammer hooks which were so laboriously honed & polished to get a 2 1/2 pound trigger!

Unfortunately, ND's were still pretty common, even among top level match shooters.

One little brain fart under match pressure is an ND waiting to happen!
But it does save the sear & hammer hooks.

rc

 

[1911Tuner]

Why was this a common practice by bullseye shooters?

Edward and rc covered it pretty well, so I'll just elaborate a bit.

Back in the day, all the armorers had to work with was heavy steel triggers. It made inertial trigger/disconnect bump a genuine concern...so the competitors held the triggers back to keep the disconnect out of the way.

These days, with the low mass triggers available, it's not as much of a problem, though when the hammer hooks and sear wear a little...even an aluminum trigger can nudge the disconnect and cause the hammer to follow the slide to half cock...and hitting the half cock is what ultimately damages sears. Not nearly as much of a concern with a stock sear, but when you've got one with a thin crown and a razor edge, it only takes one or two times to kill it.

The next modification was to remove all but the center portion of the half cock notch, so that in the event of a hammer follow...only the part of the sear that didn't matter would take the hit.

 

[bluekouki86]

Thanks ED, RC, and Tuner for the details!

I am a 1911 nut so I do understand the function of the pistol, but the more knowledge the better!