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Bobson
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Those are exactly the same results I expected. I appreciate everyone chiming in on this.
Gold Dots - 9mm
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ugaarguy
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Bobson, you may want to look at all of the testing results from ATK's LE site - http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx. Look at the results and decide which load best meets your needs / wants.
psyopspec, the 124gr +P won't necessarily give you either better penetration or better expansion, depending on test protocol. In the IWBA Heavy Clothing test the standard pressure 124 out penetrates the +P by half an inch, and is within 5 thousandths of an inch of having equal expansion. In the FBI Heavy Clothing test the +P load opens up a four hundredths inch expansion advantage, but still trails the standard velocity load in penetration by about half an inch. Against bare gelatin the +P load does get both better penetration and expansion.
ETA: After looking over the testing the standard pressure 115 grain has the least penetration after passing through wall board. At the same time it still meets FBI and IWBA penetration minimums after passing through safety glass or heavy clothing, and it still has good expansion. Based on those results I'd go with the 115 grain if it was readily available, and functioned reliably in my pistol. I'd also not lose a wink of sleep if I had to substitute one of the other loads because of availability issues.
psyopspec, the 124gr +P won't necessarily give you either better penetration or better expansion, depending on test protocol. In the IWBA Heavy Clothing test the standard pressure 124 out penetrates the +P by half an inch, and is within 5 thousandths of an inch of having equal expansion. In the FBI Heavy Clothing test the +P load opens up a four hundredths inch expansion advantage, but still trails the standard velocity load in penetration by about half an inch. Against bare gelatin the +P load does get both better penetration and expansion.
ETA: After looking over the testing the standard pressure 115 grain has the least penetration after passing through wall board. At the same time it still meets FBI and IWBA penetration minimums after passing through safety glass or heavy clothing, and it still has good expansion. Based on those results I'd go with the 115 grain if it was readily available, and functioned reliably in my pistol. I'd also not lose a wink of sleep if I had to substitute one of the other loads because of availability issues.
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I didn't choose any since they are all good choices. The 124gr +P will expand a bit wider than the 115gr but the 115gr looks completely adequate on this test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s82NCLKQI
compare to the 124gr +P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdXfDcY-0gU and the 147gr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSFQgP30Lao
compare to the 124gr +P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdXfDcY-0gU and the 147gr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSFQgP30Lao
I think it's instructive to look at bullet performance when the same bullet is driven to higher or lower velocities.
The 147gr Gold Dot at standard loading and Underwood's +P+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSFQgP30Lao
Standard Speer 147gr Gold Dot - penetrate to around 14.25" expands to around .585"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMiI8VcPQ3c
Underwood's +P+ Gold Dot - penetrates to around 12.75" and expands to around .795"
The 147gr Federal HST in standard and +P loading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRqrJRq4T0
Standard 147gr HST penetrates to around 13.25" and expands to around .664"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i67WILeK66Y
+P 147g HST penetrates to around 11.25" and expands to around .700"
The 147gr Gold Dot at standard loading and Underwood's +P+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSFQgP30Lao
Standard Speer 147gr Gold Dot - penetrate to around 14.25" expands to around .585"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMiI8VcPQ3c
Underwood's +P+ Gold Dot - penetrates to around 12.75" and expands to around .795"
The 147gr Federal HST in standard and +P loading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRqrJRq4T0
Standard 147gr HST penetrates to around 13.25" and expands to around .664"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i67WILeK66Y
+P 147g HST penetrates to around 11.25" and expands to around .700"
bigfatdave
Member
are these the good 50-round boxes, or 20/25-round chump boxes?
Price per round?
I get my 124g+P gold dots in bulk for ~$0.50/round, by the way. It is my go-to load in 9x19, because it seems to be the standard load for anything but the little overpriced boxes. All the loads will do fine, I just dislike paying for packaging.
124gr GD in my Kahr CM9. The +P is too snappy. The 147gr velocity seems a bit too low in the short barrel.
124gr +P GD in my Walther P99. I use the Winchester Ranger 9mm NATO for practice. Very similar recoil/point of aim.
I tend to stay with GD. They seem consistently good across a wide product range and advancements.
124gr +P GD in my Walther P99. I use the Winchester Ranger 9mm NATO for practice. Very similar recoil/point of aim.
I tend to stay with GD. They seem consistently good across a wide product range and advancements.
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Bobson
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They're the 20 round boxes. I've never even seen the 50 round boxes of any premium Hollow Point ammunition. Price per round on the Gold Dots are just barely over $1 per round. Those are the cheapest premium HP ammo I have found anywhere in my area.
I've actually had a hard time finding anything but premium HP ammo. The stores in my area all stock premium HP smmo, but none that I have found carry "basic" HP in 9mm, like WWB. Weird thing is, all the shops carry "basic" HP ammo in other calibers. But for 9mm, its premium HP, or FMJ. And that includes big stores like Sportsman's, Cabela's, and BPS.
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Shawn Dodson
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MTMilitiaman
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I run Win PDX1 124 gr +Ps in my G19 for defense. I could run the 124 gr standard pressure without issue, it doesn't make that much difference. I think a little extra velocity might help ensure expansion, but bullet technology is pretty decent these days and in most cases, I am sure it would be fine without a 100 extra fps.
Truth be told the only thing that keeps me from going with a good 147 gr JHP is the near total absence of a cheap 147 gr FMJ available in bulk for practice.
Truth be told the only thing that keeps me from going with a good 147 gr JHP is the near total absence of a cheap 147 gr FMJ available in bulk for practice.
shep854
Member
I voted for the 124gr std, since I also have small Kel-Tecs for carry. By my reasoning, the 124 is a good mid-weight (and is the original loading for the 9x19)
If I were limited to a 'full-size' pistol, I would lean toward the +P, which is closer to the original 'hot' 9x19 loads (or so I understand).
If I were limited to a 'full-size' pistol, I would lean toward the +P, which is closer to the original 'hot' 9x19 loads (or so I understand).
JohnBT
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"I am sure it would be fine without a 100 extra fps"
Looking at the Gold Dot spec table, the difference between 124 and the 124+P is only 70 fps - 1150 and 1220 - from a 4" barrel. That's a 6% increase, significant but not monumental.
I have some 124+P around here somewhere, but my Rohrbaugh won't shoot it and the other guns don't need it. And I like .45 better anyway.
Looking at the Gold Dot spec table, the difference between 124 and the 124+P is only 70 fps - 1150 and 1220 - from a 4" barrel. That's a 6% increase, significant but not monumental.
I have some 124+P around here somewhere, but my Rohrbaugh won't shoot it and the other guns don't need it. And I like .45 better anyway.
Most of the cheaper 147 FMJ offerings, are not anything like the premium 147 SD ammmunition, so I would think that anything you're trying to accomplish by using the same bullet weight in you practice ammo - you wouldn't be accomplishing because the premium vs cheap practice ammo would have different characteristics and would perform differently.
Speer's Lawman in 147gr is designed to mimic premium SD 147gr ammo:
"Many Lawman loads duplicate the velocities and bullet weights we load in Gold Dot® so your practice is realistic."
"Lawman ammunition is designed to meet the strict training needs of Law Enforcement Professionals. Each Speer FMJ or TMJ load is specifically engineered to deliver the feel and performance of its Gold Dot companion cartridge."
As for price, it goes for around $12.50 for a fifty round box.
Speer's Lawman in 147gr is designed to mimic premium SD 147gr ammo:
"Many Lawman loads duplicate the velocities and bullet weights we load in Gold Dot® so your practice is realistic."
"Lawman ammunition is designed to meet the strict training needs of Law Enforcement Professionals. Each Speer FMJ or TMJ load is specifically engineered to deliver the feel and performance of its Gold Dot companion cartridge."
As for price, it goes for around $12.50 for a fifty round box.
Interesting comparision tool - it has data for Gold Dots and Federal HST:
http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
I was able to get 124gr and 147gr Gold Dots online from Palmetto Armory and SG Ammo
http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
I was able to get 124gr and 147gr Gold Dots online from Palmetto Armory and SG Ammo
RBid
Member
I voted 147. The 124 and 124+P are also great.
I practice with 115gr ball. It has more snap than the 147gr GDHP I carry, so I feel like a world class shooter when I run some of my defensive loads through.
The 147 is very controllable, and it penetrates great. Those are my priorities. The expansion is boringly reliable, and solid. In Oregon, where we have a lot of heavy people, and heavy clothing, this is a perfect round.
I practice with 115gr ball. It has more snap than the 147gr GDHP I carry, so I feel like a world class shooter when I run some of my defensive loads through.
The 147 is very controllable, and it penetrates great. Those are my priorities. The expansion is boringly reliable, and solid. In Oregon, where we have a lot of heavy people, and heavy clothing, this is a perfect round.
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