good day gone bad.

[thefamcnaj]

So I haven't been shooting in a while and so I was all amped up about my range outing today. I've made some upgrades to my ar 15 and couldn't wait to get some smoke off the barrel today.
Shooting has become more convenient as of late due to a nice range being built locally here, finally a prayer was answered with this place. I only have 8 miles to drive to shoot my rifle as apposed to 50 mile journey I was making.
So I hop out of my truck with rifle in hand and walk through the door and see a sign that reads: "No long guns allowed unless chambered in .22lr or .17hmr."
Due to the fact that some knuckle head that decided to shoot armor piercing rounds on two different occasions. Each time cost to fix the damage was 600 dollars.
That's a lot of money to an upstart buisness. The signs clearly tell shoothers no steel cased ammo, armor piercing, or reloads.
I just don't see why a fellow shooter would intentially break the rules, cause damage and ruin it for every one else. The communinty finally had a nice indoor facility and a bone head pulls a move like this.
Now its back to driving a while in order to break out the rifles. I'm just shocked that some one in the shooting community would mess it up for every one else. My three years in the gun world has taught me that theres not a better group of fellas than the ones who frequent the gun shops/ranges.
I didn't mean to go off on a rant but, come on don't blow it for the 99.9% of us who do the right thing.

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Yeah, you get the selfish people around, who are only worried about themselves, just to ruin it for everyone else. Sorry to hear.

 

[ralphie98]

Unfortunately there are people who just don't care. Most likely the offender didn't even read the signs there. There is also the chance that the person didn't know they were shooting ap ammo. Not all gun owners engulf the world of guns like us thr members do. Some just buy cheap ammo and like to make holes in things.

The indoor range here I aspects all ammo going into the rifle bays and will put a magnet on it if it looks suspicious.

 

[Dentite]

Wouldn't just plain old 223 55gr FMJ be considered "armor piercing"?

They probably should have had a sign that said no FMJ in rifle rounds.

And no reloads either? No steel cased ammo? I wouldn't have a lot of use for a range like that. I shoot reloads, steel cased ammo and FMJ rounds that would be considered "armor piercing".

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Same thing happened at my local indoor range. Very annoying as sometimes I just want to get a quick zero and I could go there after work. Outdoor range requires me to wait for the weekend.

 

[blarby]

Sorry to hear that.

Sadly, sounds like a range that makes a killing on selling spent brass, too.

Don't be too sad...they might be forcing folks to buy their ammo, and leave the brass there soon.

 

[coalman]

The "me mentality" rules America.

The "no reloads" rules sucks and a deal-breaker for me.

 

[lobo9er]

.......................

 

[Rob G]

Sadly there are some real idiots there. There's a nice indoor range near me that allows long guns up to .30 and has some lanes out to about 75 yards or so. Not fantastic for rifles but it's nice when the weather sucks.

Anyway, just recently they became real nazis about ammo. I asked the clerk what was with the change in attitude and he told me they were a little shaky with their insurance company because some idiot shot incendiary rounds on the range and set the back wall and part of the ceiling on fire. :banghead:

I guess I can't blame them for being a little paranoid after that.

 

[MachIVshooter]

armor piercing rounds? I wanna call b.s. on the story

Do elaborate.

If you're appealing to the legality of them, they're perfectly legal for rifles, and widely possessed. I have AP stuff in no less that 6 chamberings

 

[EddieNFL]

Do elaborate.

If you're appealing to the legality of them, they're perfectly legal for rifles, and widely possessed. I have AP stuff in no less that 6 chamberings

It's the, "Never seen it, doesn't exist!" syndrome.

Also, FMJ is not armor piercing.

 

[lobo9er]

Do elaborate.

not questioning if AP rounds exist or are legal. I just have never heard of a range not allowing them, reloads or "steel cased" ammo. why would steel cased ammo be banned? And to be honest how would they know if someone was shooting reloads?

 

[Sam1911]

not questioning if AP rounds exist or are legal. I just have never heard of a range not allowing them, reloads or "steel cased" ammo. why would steel cased ammo be banned? And to be honest how would they know if someone was shooting reloads?

Oh sure! Many ranges prohibit AP stuff. Obviously any indoor range with any sort of steel backstop will, and many outdoor ranges do as well because of damage to their steel hardware and/or steel targets. Same with incendiary ammo for obvious reasons. (We had a pair of guys set the rifle range on fire at our club just last year. No biggie, that time, but the local fire department did respond.)

As for steel cased ammo, many indoor ranges collect spent brass and sell it. Steel cased ammo becomes a pain for them to sort out.

Reloads are a harder one to figure (possibly some perceived safety issue) and you certainly could easily sneake in your own stuff in some factory boxes. But if you're a very dedicated reloader, all your stuff probably rides in the plastic MTM/Midway type boxes and that's pretty easy to spot.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

there are always idiots who ruin things for the rest

My pet peeve are people at the local outdoor range who put targets (especially stick-on shoot-n-see targets) on the wooden target frames and shoot through them.

 

[Quoheleth]

I just don't see why a fellow shooter would intentially break the rules, cause damage and ruin it for every one else

Because some people are just plain ol' idiots. Others are inconsiderate. Still others don't think rules apply to them. And then some just don't bother to read the rules.

I am a member of an outdoor range. We have a rifle firing line and a 3-sided pistol berm. The pistol berm's signage clearly states - "Handguns and rimfire rifles only! No centerfire rifles allowed!"

One morning I was there shooting my pistols in the pistol area when another member, his son and grandson set up their rifle at the other end of the pistol firing line. The first BOOM from his end of the firing line startled me; the second BOOM got a whole lot of attention very fast. He was shooting his 7mm Rem mag. Four of us confronted him and his answer was, "I am a founding member...I should be able to do what I want." We showed him the signs and then his answer was, "How long has that rule been in effect?" [answer: since day one the pistol berm was opened]. And, "What's the big deal?"

His name and member number were recorded and given to the board of directors. I don't know what, if any, disciplinary action was taken against him, but our bylaws state that such disregard of the rules could result in permanent suspension.

Q

 

[FROGO207]

Well we had to limit our 50 foot indoor range to solid lead projectiles only with a 1000 FPS max due to members shooting stuff through the 5/8 mild steel backstop here. We closed the range and welded up the many holes, (went through the steel and concrete block wall behind then into the woods)then made everybody go through a class of what NOT to use if allowed re-entry. Within 3 weeks we still had more holes out through the wall.:banghead::banghead: Now we have a computerized entry system and daily checks to at least be able to identify what day the offense has occurred and shut off users till we ID who was responsible. And still it happened again.--------several times:banghead: You get my point I hope.

 

[lobo9er]

Than I stand corrected.

 

[Claude Clay]

demand by those on the wait list has changed my range.....badly.

its the new 'entitled' generation ( mostly) that is the cause of our recent troubles.
so many infractions that the board has to meet twice a month now and is asking for $$ compensation.

getting to be like the govt---
costs twice as much
works half as well and
takes twice as long
to get half of what you use to

 

[skeeziks]

It's a Disease and it has a name.... "Self-Centeredness!"

Most people I run accross on a daily basis are completely self-centered and don't give any thought whatsoever to anyone around them.

I've got so much more I can say, but I can feel my blood pressure rising so I'll just leave it at that.
Everyone have a nice day and try not to let "them" get to you.

 

[walt629]

I go to an indoor range with the same signage regarding AP, reloads and steel case ammo. The AP restriction is for the obvious reason. The restriction on reloads is strictly a liability issue. The range owner told me he if anyone on the range gets hurt from a reload, it'll mess up his liability insurance rates. Not sure about the steel cases other than sorting them out of the brass would be a pain.

 

[Sam1911]

Not sure about the steel cases other than sorting them out of the brass would be a pain.

One issue is that various nations (including US) have used mild steel as a core material (or part of the core) in their military ammo. Back in the '80s-'90s most of the steel-cased ammo you'd see was military surplus from overseas and so the idea became firmly rooted that steel cased ammo was steel cored (or even AP, though most wasn't, really) and so was bad for backstops and range equipment.

Of course, much steel-cased rifle ammo that is available today has no steel in it at all, and steel-cased HANDGUN ammo never did, obviously.

Our military M855 (ss109) 5.56mm load uses a steel penetrator as part of its core as well, and is just as much of an issue, but many folks still think steel-case=bad and brass-case=good.

 

[bluetopper]

Can't understand their being a "no reloads" rule? My cast lead pistol reloads wouldn't hurt anything.

I'm more and more grateful for my local club's outdoor unsupervised range all the time.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Did you buy a membership in this range?

If so, those rules were not in place when you signed up. You could probably demand a refund and get it if you claimed that you joined expressly so that you could shoot your rifle which WAS ALLOWED at the time you paid. I was involved in a similar situation with a health club membership once when they changed their operating hours. Long story short, I had joined when it was a 'key club' with 24 hour access but after several things were stolen they started closing at 9 PM. they were no longer providing me with 24 hour access (which is a breech of contract) so I got my money back.

 

[thefamcnaj]

The reason the range bans reloaded ammo is a liability thing. The steel case ammo is prohibited because the company the range sells the brass to docs them money when they find steel cases in the shipment.
AP rounds are banned because the steel at the end of the lanes gets damaged pretty bad.

 

[Don357]

They probably don't allow reloads for the same reason they don't allow black powder guns. "Smoke?", you say, nope. They're afraid someone will overload a round and have a catastrophic failure and someone else gets hurt or dead, which would leave them open for a lawsuit. This was explained to me by a friend who used to manage an indoor range. The rifle vs pistol rule still leaves me wondering.... "I can't take my .30 M1 carbine, but I can take my .45 WinMag Grizzly. Hmmmmm?